Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[Bash]

Originally Posted by slomotion

???? No, Jessica was not dismasted - her custom mast/rig proved to be unbreakable. Knockdowns are not necessarily a measure of seamanship. They are a measure of how perilous it is to go nonstop solo sailing for months in the some of the world's most remote and dangerous seas.

Here's an article from the LA times that seems to indicate that her mast was not only breakable, but broken.

Jessica Watson survives collision, still wants to sail around the world alone | Outposts | Los Angeles Times

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by slomotion

Obviously, you meant Jessica set sail at exactly 16 yrs. 5 mo. of age. But, Mark's point is essentially correct. "Team Abby" needed a go-fast boat because they were running out of time to make it through the Southern Ocean before the southern fall/winter.

My stated point was exactly wronge! Abby was 2 months younger at her departure (and could have "won" with a slower circumnavigation), than was Jess at hers.
THANKS for getting the fact right (sloMo').

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by hummingway

It seems one of the lessons experienced sailors like to share is that of respect for the sea. You let the sea dictate when you go and your course. To go against the wisdom that has been learned over millenia is to risk your life no matter your age. Slocum was as knowledgable as they come and he didn't try push the river. I think that setting records is a pretty good example of ignoring this wisdom at the peril of the sailor.

With all due respect, Slocum did not have the equipment and communication technology that is available today.

That's sort like saying we shouldn't drive up long steep grades at 75MPH in our cars with the AC going full blast because we may over-heat and die in the wilderness. Besides, the mere fact of the human body traveling at 75MPH may not be survivable (that was the belief of the day).

That may well have been the case in 1901. I would think that allowing a 15-year-old to take a boat to sea, outside the sight of land, might have been troubling to me in those days. If you still believe that, you should turn off your computer because the "rays" that it emits may fry your brain.

[sailstoo]

Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Bash

Here's an article from the LA times that seems to indicate that her mast was not only breakable, but broken.

Sorry, I misunderstood - I thought you meant dismasted during a circumnavigation. Also, it's kind of odd to describe a collision with a cargo ship as being "dismasted." But yes, being hit by a ship can break just about any mast:

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Kanani

Your reading skills about the same as your welding skills. No offense intended.

I didn't say a word about someone expressing their "Opinion". My statement was, "ANYONE that does not recognize that is merely an inexperienced sailor themselves and have NO right to second guess these people.".

I would say the same thing if someone judged your parenting skills on a subject that they know little about and are working on 3rd hand information.

Apparently you were not able to make the connection that 'second guesses' are 'opinions'. Hopefully, this has helped.

[sneuman]

Teen Sailor's Rescue Raises Safety, Expense Issues

Teen Sailor's Rescue Raises Safety, Expense Issues : NPR

[GordMay]

Perhaps, it's God's fault will.

Evidently, the Sunderlands are deeply religious people. They describe themselves as born-again Christians, and her dad said in an interview with the Los Angeles Times just before Abby was getting ready to leave on this big trip: "We have prepared her. She has prepared herself. But in the end, it's not really in her hands. It's not really in our hands. It's in the Lord's hands" And Abby basically said to reporters several times, "you know, I could not have gotten this far if God hadn't wanted me to do this.'
So they feel that there's been some sort of divine guidance in all of this.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Teen Sailor's Rescue Raises Safety, Expense Issues

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127775304

Good article.....I agree with everything except the "Best case scenario" of vessel to vessel transfer. That can only be determined on scene. My guess is, if the seas are rough, Abby may have to jump over-board in her survival suit. I would really hate to see them attempt a vessel transfer. That is incredibly dangerous. She can stay in that water for 24-hours in a survival suite.

[slomotion]

Gord, I don't know who's crazier, the Sunderlands or Gary Jobson, the president of U.S. Sailing, who per the NPR article said:

"it might be time to require rescue insurance for sailors who put themselves in unnecessarily dangerous situations, such as solo circumnavigations."

What would that be like? Is someone going to license these people and regulate their voyages? Maybe require a scarlet 'S' for solo sailors so we can spot them in the Southern Ocean and check their insurance cards.

I pretty much agree with Chris Larson who, per the same article, said of solo circumnavigators: "They're crazy." As I've said before, Jon Sanders' triple solo nonstop circumnavigation was a jaw dropping achievement, but there was also and always an underlying suspicion that he must be nuts.

OTOH, maybe there's something to said for the Vito Dumas style. He didn't take his radio because he didn't want to be shot as a spy. No chance of an expensive rescue for that guy. Not sure whether God was on his side, but he deserves a special place in the solo circumnavigator's asylum.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Teen Sailor's Rescue Raises Safety, Expense Issues

Teen Sailor's Rescue Raises Safety, Expense Issues : NPR

Every time that I hear about these rescues, it makes me feel that we are getting closer and closer to the day that we will be required to pay a hefty price for an EPIRB. I see no other way to realistically collect fees from the people that use the benefit.

I have commented on this before in prior posts.

My feeling is, if a person is not willing to pay $500-$1000 additional for an EPIRB, they have no right to the benefits of the service. I realize that is a pretty tuff position to take but.....hey.....long ocean passages are risky. If you want to take that risk, you should have to pay the price or go without IMO.......

I know that it's easy for me to say that now because I am retired from sailing. However, if the urge struck me again, I would think that is a reasonable request. If I couldn't afford it, I would go without. I didn't have one on my '84-'87 circumnavigation. If I'd have been lost at sea, that would have been my decision. It would have made me jeri-rig my way to safety or die. That's just the way it was back then and I accepted that.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Perhaps, it's God's fault will.

And Abby basically said to reporters several times, "you know, I could not have gotten this far if God hadn't wanted me to do this.'

Maybe God want's her to serve as an example of what not to do.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Kanani

With all due respect, Slocum did not have the equipment and communication technology that is available today.

That's sort like saying we shouldn't drive up long steep grades at 75MPH in our cars with the AC going full blast because we may over-heat and die in the wilderness. Besides, the mere fact of the human body traveling at 75MPH may not be survivable (that was the belief of the day).

That may well have been the case in 1901. I would think that allowing a 15-year-old to take a boat to sea, outside the sight of land, might have been troubling to me in those days. If you still believe that, you should turn off your computer because the "rays" that it emits may fry your brain.

No and Slocum was a superior seaman to many if not most even in his day. However, apparently Abby'a technology was good enough, unless you consider being demasted and requiring significant resources to be removed from the Indian Ocean somehow an example of how superior technology now allows us to go anywhere at anytime on the sea. You are the first person to suggest this so I hope you'll understand if I question your standard of proof.

[slomotion]

Joshua Slocum is revered as a pioneer and justly so. However, while his was not exactly a leisurely cruising type circumnavigation, it was much closer to that than the kind of thing that Abby engaged in. Slocum probably would have been horrified by the idea of sailing RTW solo, nonstop, and unassisted - or maybe not. But I suspect he would agree that Vito Dumas was crazy.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by hummingway

No and Slocum was a superior seaman to many if not most even in his day. However, apparently Abby'a technology was good enough, unless you consider being demasted and requiring significant resources to be removed from the Indian Ocean somehow an example of how superior technology now allows us to go anywhere at anytime on the sea. You are the first person to suggest this so I hope you'll understand if I question your standard of proof.

Proof???? Proof of what, that technology makes things possible that were impossible 100 years ago? Maybe I'm missing something.

My only contention is that what Abby, if what Abby is doing is irresponsible then most of the 100,000 cruising vessels in the world are irresponsible. Is it being 15 that is irresponsible? Would she be better off in SoCal traffic or on a dirt bike in the desert, like so many other kids? or is it that she is a female?

One may not agree with where she was, in the dead of winter. However, that is a very fast, light, nimble boat. Those boats don't "fight" the seas like a typical cruising yacht. They basically sprint across them. My feeling is the boat was swamped several times by cross-seas (just a guess).

God didn't do it and it wasn't a lack of seamanship. In my opinion (which means little) she is a victim of circumstances that could happen to any cruising yacht anywhere in the world at any time of the year (and does....every year).