Terminology

[opwan2002]

What is the name of the lip/rail that holds saloon bench cushions in place. Usually wood and raised up from bench so as to prevent cushions from sliding off onto the floor?: facepalm:

[sailorboy1]

I call mine Velco

[estarzinger]

It's a "fiddle". Most often used to describe the barrier on tables and countertops but also is for seats/cushions.

[Sailmonkey]

Fiddle?


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I see my reply was delayed by an hour........

[OldFrog75]

I would call it molding and in the case of tables and counters on boats, raised molding, but I'm not a carpenter.

[sailorchic34]

Mr. Starzinger is of course correct. A fiddle, a sailing term, not the musical instrument.

[FamilyVan]

Definitely a fiddle.

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[Alan Mighty]

I beg to differ, on the grounds that: (1) it is unnecessary to invent a "nautical" term for what is clearly just a raised moulding of the sort also found in landlubber furniture; and
(2) no 19th century work shows fiddle used other than for the temporary or permanent lip around the edges of a table or similar work surface.

Fiddle, the temporary or permanent moulding or lip around the edges of a table or other surface, is an authentic term. It dates in written English from almost exactly 150 years ago (the Daily Telegraph of 21 August 1865): "A heavy sea, which‥caused the production of ‘fiddles’ on the saloon tables at lunch time." Two years after, the term was included in Smyth's Sailor's Word-book: "Fiddle, a contrivance to prevent things from rolling off the table in bad weather."


Note that both citations are specific to objects on a table in a ship rolling in a seaway. To extend the use of the word 'fiddle' in the 21st century for the first time to every raised wall would mean that every gunwale, bulwark, coaming, lifeline or whatever ridge or bump is a 'fiddle'. That is clearly not the case.


As an aside, I've not seen any authority satisfactorily explain the origin of the nautical term 'fiddle'. The usual practice, as followed by the Oxford English Dictionary, is to suggest that a nautical fiddle somehow refers to the form of a violin, specifically the sidewall of the soundbox of a violin.


I think it just as likely that 'fiddle' refers to the back-and-forth movement of objects colliding with the raised moulding around a table when in a seaway - and that in turn refers to the back-and-forth motion of a fiddler bowing the instrument. The verb 'fiddle', for the aimless movement of idle hands (usually reserved for people of lower status than the writer, especially women or males of lower classes) is documented in English from 1503.


To get back to the OP's question: it's just a raised moulding or lip. No need for mystifying every thing on a boat with a nautical name.


And if you're at all interested in etymology, note that the term 'fiddle' is of uncertain and disputed origin. You can find 'authorities' pushing any of several lines, including:
(1) suggesting it is of Latin origin, descending from Latin fidil, a lyre or guitar; from Latin fides, the strings of a lyre or guitar;
(2) suggesting it is of Middle Latin origin, descending from ML vituh, a viola; from Latin Vitula, the goddess of joy, exultation, or victory; to
(3) suggesting it is of Germanic origin, from Old High German fidula, a viola or violin.

No one has the time or motivation to sort out the mess. I'd not be surprised if it had a Germanic origin and was borrowed into Latin.


The ancestral term in English, fithele (with th written either as the letter thorn or the letter eth, depending on time and location) appeared in writing in Middle English around 1205. And its closest relatives were Low German, High German, and Old Norse. {if you're not up on thorn and eth, point your browser to a resource such as: http://mentalfloss.com/article/31904/12-letters-didnt-make-alphabet}.


Al

[Orion Jim]

Fiddle.
That makes four "fiddle's".

[Tayana42]

How about fiddle sticks? Fiddle dee dee? Fiddle faddle? Or for a more classic tone, Nero sticks?😉


S/V B'Shert

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

I beg to differ, on the grounds that: (1) it is unnecessary to invent a "nautical" term for what is clearly just a raised moulding of the sort also found in landlubber furniture; and
(2) no 19th century work shows fiddle used other than for the temporary or permanent lip around the edges of a table or similar work surface.

Fiddle, the temporary or permanent moulding or lip around the edges of a table or other surface, is an authentic term. It dates in written English from almost exactly 150 years ago (the Daily Telegraph of 21 August 1865): "A heavy sea, which‥caused the production of ‘fiddles’ on the saloon tables at lunch time." Two years after, the term was included in Smyth's Sailor's Word-book: "Fiddle, a contrivance to prevent things from rolling off the table in bad weather."
Al

So a fiddle is a nautical term used since the 1800's. Seems like a reasonable amount of time to be valid. Gee if you can't use a nautical term on a boat, where would you use it. BTW A fiddle is also the little metal thingy's uses to hold pots on the galley stove in a seaway. Of course, I could just call them "little metal thingy's". Who needs to use fiddles anyway.

What I love is seeing some of the new production sailboats that don't have fiddles around the table or sink area. Lovely. Not to mention a dearth of handholds inside.

There are new words developed and used in all aspects of life. For sailing one of the newest is "foiling".

[Pelagic]

FYI.....
"Fiddle" is also used on a ship to describe the top floor of an engine room usually with an exit in the stack combing to an outer deck.

Don't know the origin of that nautical use

Edit.... I was wrong... It is called a Fiddley...oops!

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dic...nglish/fiddley

[Hoofsmit]

I'm with Sailorchic, as with all terminology- if it's used and is understood by those who need to know, what's the problem?
To me a fiddle on a boat was used to describe a structure that help prevent object falling off a storage area or to secure cups ect.I have only every heard it being used in the galley or storage area of a saloon, if it was decorative it was a fret.
A moulding (english) referred to a decorative shaped item and generally had no practical use like a carved cornice
But this is just me ! ( I am Cornish so it may have Celtic- or old French origin)


Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!

[Tayana42]

I think SailorChic is just fiddling around with us.


S/V B'Shert

[captain465]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

I beg to differ, on the grounds that: (1) it is unnecessary to invent a "nautical" term for what is clearly just a raised moulding of the sort also found in landlubber furniture; and
(2) no 19th century work shows fiddle used other than for the temporary or permanent lip around the edges of a table or similar work surface.

Fiddle, the temporary or permanent moulding or lip around the edges of a table or other surface, is an authentic term. It dates in written English from almost exactly 150 years ago (the Daily Telegraph of 21 August 1865): "A heavy sea, which‥caused the production of ‘fiddles’ on the saloon tables at lunch time." Two years after, the term was included in Smyth's Sailor's Word-book: "Fiddle, a contrivance to prevent things from rolling off the table in bad weather."


Note that both citations are specific to objects on a table in a ship rolling in a seaway. To extend the use of the word 'fiddle' in the 21st century for the first time to every raised wall would mean that every gunwale, bulwark, coaming, lifeline or whatever ridge or bump is a 'fiddle'. That is clearly not the case.


As an aside, I've not seen any authority satisfactorily explain the origin of the nautical term 'fiddle'. The usual practice, as followed by the Oxford English Dictionary, is to suggest that a nautical fiddle somehow refers to the form of a violin, specifically the sidewall of the soundbox of a violin.


I think it just as likely that 'fiddle' refers to the back-and-forth movement of objects colliding with the raised moulding around a table when in a seaway - and that in turn refers to the back-and-forth motion of a fiddler bowing the instrument. The verb 'fiddle', for the aimless movement of idle hands (usually reserved for people of lower status than the writer, especially women or males of lower classes) is documented in English from 1503.


To get back to the OP's question: it's just a raised moulding or lip. No need for mystifying every thing on a boat with a nautical name.


And if you're at all interested in etymology, note that the term 'fiddle' is of uncertain and disputed origin. You can find 'authorities' pushing any of several lines, including:
(1) suggesting it is of Latin origin, descending from Latin fidil, a lyre or guitar; from Latin fides, the strings of a lyre or guitar;
(2) suggesting it is of Middle Latin origin, descending from ML vituh, a viola; from Latin Vitula, the goddess of joy, exultation, or victory; to
(3) suggesting it is of Germanic origin, from Old High German fidula, a viola or violin.

No one has the time or motivation to sort out the mess. I'd not be surprised if it had a Germanic origin and was borrowed into Latin.


The ancestral term in English, fithele (with th written either as the letter thorn or the letter eth, depending on time and location) appeared in writing in Middle English around 1205. And its closest relatives were Low German, High German, and Old Norse. {if you're not up on thorn and eth, point your browser to a resource such as: http://mentalfloss.com/article/31904/12-letters-didnt-make-alphabet}.


Al

OH, Allen (all) Mighty.....please tell us of the origin of the word "painter", as applied to the line used to tow a dinghy?