Welland Canal oops

[Lodesman]

https://globalnews.ca/video/7167208/2-ships-collide-head-on-in-welland-ont

Sometimes the pro's get it all wrong.

[El Pinguino]

From a laker captain friend..
'Having been in this area many times I don't understand what happened to Florence Spirit as she seemed to veer to the wrong side of the canal. It is normal to keep to the right and allow a one whistle pass. The canal is wide at this section so should have been no problem. Unless she had a steering problem which would account for the sudden alteration in course. In the narrow section, you both keep to the centre and then alter to starboard when a couple of boat lengths away and the interaction keeps both boats apart.'

[Lodesman]

My thoughts too. Doesn't seem like a steering gear breakdown, but more of a "the other starboard" type human error.

[tkeithlu]

Long time ago I went with my ship-pilot father-in-law on an in-bound ship at Aransas Pass Texas. The channel is narrow. The out-bound ship coming at us and our ship when dead center headed for each other. At what seemed the last second to me, both ships veered to starboard, and used the cushion of water they pushed between them to keep them from colliding. Suddenly the quiet life of a college professor was much more appealing.

[sandy stone]

I have an old copy of a little book called "Ship Handling in Narrow Channels". One part of the book went into some detail about how a ship traveling close in to the bank would feel a suction on the hull, particularly at the aft end. The book then described how the stern of the boat being pulled into the bank would override the rudder, resulting in the ship sheering out of control across the channel. Seems like at least a possibility in this case.

[BugzyCan]

In this video, the Red ship is 100% at fault, it should have veered to starboard to pass. I suspect the captain was not watching ahead. The black ship had no room to maneuver to starboard, although they could have reversed engines and let out 5 loud blasts, but I suspect the collision would have occurred anyways at this proximity.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

In this video, the Red ship is 100% at fault, it should have veered to starboard to pass. I suspect the captain was not watching ahead. The black ship had no room to maneuver to starboard, although they could have reversed engines and let out 5 loud blasts, but I suspect the collision would have occurred anyways at this proximity.

Are you watching the same video as the rest of us? The black ship altered to port across the bow of the red ship.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

In this video, the Red ship is 100% at fault, it should have veered to starboard to pass. I suspect the captain was not watching ahead. The black ship had no room to maneuver to starboard, although they could have reversed engines and let out 5 loud blasts, but I suspect the collision would have occurred anyways at this proximity.

Captain? Doesn't the Welland Canal have a pilot requirement? I understand the captain is ultimately responsible but wouldn't some of the blame be shared by the pilot?

[BugzyCan]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Are you watching the same video as the rest of us? The black ship altered to port across the bow of the red ship.

Yes, because it was obvious the red ship was not going to move to starboard, and he didn't have room to stop, and I would suspect the water depth on his starboard side was too low to go that direction. A last moment attempt to save it, which was folly.

Red ship is to blame here IMO.

[sandy stone]

I don't believe for a second that the black ship intentionally altered course across the channel like that. They obviously had some kind of control problem.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

Yes, because it was obvious the red ship was not going to move to starboard, and he didn't have room to stop, and I would suspect the water depth on his starboard side was too low to go that direction. A last moment attempt to save it, which was folly.

Red ship is to blame here IMO.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ture32336.html

You're having a go. There's maybe a ship's width to starboard of the red ship - the canal isn't super-wide, maybe 130 yards, but that still leaves more than four times the safe water for Florence to pass on the correct side. You might review rule 14.

[Lodesman]

Another clip of the video - it captures more of the crash and clearly shows how close to the side of the canal they are - not aimed at anyone in particular : https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/news/article/two-ships-collide-in-ontarios-welland-canal

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

I would suspect the water depth on his starboard side was too low to go that direction.
Red ship is to blame here IMO.

Your suspicions are incorrect. The channel is very deep to within a few feet of the shore. There is lots of room in that section.
(more than 100 Welland transits)

[LittleWing77]

You know, I've been attending all of the IJC Webinars re Great Lakes water level heights and the volume outputs and flows, etc. (in fact, there's another one this Friday).

I wonder if the velocity of the water under the hull was somehow a factor since, as boatpoker says, there's deep water all the way through that channel. If you add the perspective that the black boat was travelling downstream (with the flow) and red boat upstream (against the velocity)(or perhaps the opposite, I'm assuming the direction of the two boats).

In the Webinars, they often mention that one of their major considerations is that high outflow rates precipitously increase the underwater velocity which dangerously affects the commercial shipping traffic's ability to manouvre at narrow channel points.

I wonder...
LittleWing77

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

You know, I've been attending all of the IJC Webinars re Great Lakes water level heights and the volume outputs and flows, etc. (in fact, there's another one this Friday).

I wonder if the velocity of the water under the hull was somehow a factor since, as boatpoker says, there's deep water all the way through that channel. If you add the perspective that the black boat was travelling downstream (with the flow) and red boat upstream (against the velocity)(or perhaps the opposite, I'm assuming the direction of the two boats).

In the Webinars, they often mention that one of their major considerations is that high outflow rates precipitously increase the underwater velocity which dangerously affects the commercial shipping traffic's ability to manouvre at narrow channel points.

I wonder...
LittleWing77

If this were in the St. Lawrence, that would make sense. But in the Welland Canal, probably not. Most of the flow from Lake Erie to Ontario goes through the Niagara River, not the Welland.