Boats similar to Hallberg Rassy

[joecai]

What are some boats similar to Hallberg Rassy 40 in quality and performance? Some of the desired attributes besides quality are (not in order of importance):

Long keel
Larger water and fuel tanks
Two cabins maybe with some quarter berth
Multiple headsails.
Traditional main (non furling)
Newer model year 2000+

[s57ra]

Najad, Contest... Well, the new ones, all of them are no more long-keel, and i do not see much advantage of having one.

[joecai]

Originally Posted by s57ra

Najad, Contest... Well, the new ones, all of them are no more long-keel, and i do not see much advantage of having one.

OK forgot to mention I am in the east coast of the US. Najad and Contest are hard to find here. Of course buying a boat in the destination of cruising seems to be a good option as well.

Long keel, simply because strong than fin keels. I am still pretty new to this.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by joecai

Long keel, simply because strong than fin keels. I am still pretty new to this.

These two opinions often go together.

You better start with the important things before worrying about technical details that make no sense without context.

Here are a few more important things to worry about:
When do you plan to sail?
What will be your budget then?
How much do you know about sailing and cruising?
Where will you sail?
Is your skill enough for where you want to sail?

If you're still at the start of your journey, consider learning the ropes first. That'll give you most enjoyment and best bang for your buck instead of reading about boat design.

And once you have more actual experience, your priorities for a suitable boat will be different.

[leecea]

Excellent advice above ^^^^

That said, the most common sailboat with a long keel on US East coast will be an Island Packet. Not equiv to the ones previously mentioned but popular, seem to hold value and sell well (at least the ones in our marina have done so).

FYI, checking the Hallberg Rassy website it doesn't look like the 400 or 40C use a long keel. Even the older 40 didn't look to have a long keel.

[joecai]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

These two opinions often go together.

You better start with the important things before worrying about technical details that make no sense without context.

Here are a few more important things to worry about:
When do you plan to sail?
What will be your budget then?
How much do you know about sailing and cruising?
Where will you sail?
Is your skill enough for where you want to sail?

If you're still at the start of your journey, consider learning the ropes first. That'll give you most enjoyment and best bang for your buck instead of reading about boat design.

And once you have more actual experience, your priorities for a suitable boat will be different.

Good points. We are novice sailors and only completed ASA sailing courses up to advanced coastal cruising. Have chartered monohulls a few times in the US and Barcelona. Most recently chartered a 42 ft catamaran in the Chesapeake bay. As you mentioned our desired boat changes as we gain more experience and sail on more boats. But we have enjoyed sailing and know we will be happy to live aboard full time for at least a few years.

When: in two years.
Where: we will sail in the med maybe occasionally venturing out to the Atlantic coast of Europe. We generally avoid heavy weather but do like to sail a lot instead of staying in one place for extended period of time. A little more priority on performance than comfort. We do not plan to cross the Atlantic so I guess we have to buy the boat in the med.
Budget: $300k including refitting.

Any suggestions is very much appreciated.

[joecai]

Originally Posted by leecea

Excellent advice above ^^^^

That said, the most common sailboat with a long keel on US East coast will be an Island Packet. Not equiv to the ones previously mentioned but popular, seem to hold value and sell well (at least the ones in our marina have done so).

FYI, checking the Hallberg Rassy website it doesn't look like the 400 or 40C use a long keel. Even the older 40 didn't look to have a long keel.

I have seriously considered island packet but a lot of people say it’s slow and doesn’t point. I like the boat and the layout as well. Also the cutter rig.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by joecai

I have seriously considered island packet but a lot of people say it’s slow and doesn’t point. I like the boat and the layout as well. Also the cutter rig.

I assume by "Long Keel" you mean a modern long fin, often with a skeg hung rudder, not a fullish keel type?
Personally I think it's a good choice. However it may be getting hard to find that choice in a newer boat.

In these types of boats, when fully loaded for cruising, pointing very well is often not a reality anyway.

[joecai]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I assume by "Long Keel" you mean a modern long fin, often with a skeg hung rudder, not a fullish keel type?
Personally I think it's a good choice. However it may be getting hard to find that choice in a newer boat.

In these types of boats, when fully loaded for cruising, pointing very well is often not a reality anyway.

I meant long keel like what Island packet has. For example IP 380. Seems most modern boats have fin keel, with unprotected rudder. Not sure if it’s a big deal anymore.

[Don C L]

I think that if you are new to it all I'd recommend waiting and getting more sailing time in a variety of boats before making the decision to buy. I happen to really like my long keel but I know not all would agree. I like the performance and motion of my boat, and that is a personal thing too. A well-made modern boat should not have any problems with keel strength. Along with that, I can't think of newer boats besides IP with long keels anyway. There must be some, I just can't think of one right now. You'll usually find the upwind performance you want in more of a fin keel anyway.
BTW why not a Hallberg Rassy? Are you concerned about the strength of its fin keel?

Welcome aboard by the way!

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by joecai

I meant long keel like what Island packet has. For example IP 380. Seems most modern boats have fin keel, with unprotected rudder. Not sure if it’s a big deal anymore.

Ah the rudder. Well that will probably generate some debate that will likely depend on different experiences with spade rudders vs. skeg-hung rudders. My own personal choice would be to avoid a spade rudder on a cruising boat because of an experience I had on a boat with a spade rudder. And in my neighborhood they will tend to snag kelp and crab pot lines. A balanced rudder on a skeg will too so I'd probably opt for an unbalanced rudder on a beefy skeg. But that is only one opinion.

[Kettlewell]

We love our Finnsailer 38. Not many over here and they are older. Great boats with the hard pilot house, three-cabin layout, big tanks, and sail well.

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by joecai

What are some boats similar to Hallberg Rassy 40 in quality and performance? Some of the desired attributes besides quality are (not in order of importance):

Long keel
Larger water and fuel tanks
Two cabins maybe with some quarter berth
Multiple headsails.
Traditional main (non furling)
Newer model year 2000+

Check out the Taswell 43 in DeltaVille Va. Has head sail and stay sail, but 1999.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...44-as-8734719/

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by joecai

When: in two years.
Where: we will sail in the med maybe occasionally venturing out to the Atlantic coast of Europe. We generally avoid heavy weather but do like to sail a lot instead of staying in one place for extended period of time. A little more priority on performance than comfort. We do not plan to cross the Atlantic so I guess we have to buy the boat in the med.
Budget: $300k including refitting.

Any suggestions is very much appreciated.

That's a very reasonable and doable plan with many good options.

The first and biggest question will probably be: Monohull or catamaran?

In the Mediterranean, the number of catamarans are slowly on the rise, but around here they still suffer from penalities with mooring fees and finding places to haul out. In general, the Mediterranean is more monohull territory, but catamarans work really well too. Decide what works for you and your budget.

Specially in summer, the Western Mediterranean has very variable and often light winds. Where I am sitting at the moment, the morning is usually becalmed, some wind wind will come around 2 o'clock till 8, then it's nothing again. In such a situation, a boat sailing well in light winds is more fun compared to my old an heavy boat. This usually means a more modern design (post 1995) is a good idea.

Next is size. For a couple, these days the sweet spot seems to be around 40 to 42 foot long. Prices in Marinas often increase above 45ft. Also, the bigger the boat, the bigger the sails, the beefier the lines lines, the more cans of antifouling, etc. A draft of 6ft seems work well enough in the Mediterranean.

You can get a lot more value for your money by deciding what you won't do with the boat. If you go for a boat fitted out to be a coastal cruiser in warm waters, you get a lot more comfort and fun in warm areas than having a blue-water cruiser ready for Norway and Patagonia even if it won't work that well in the Northern-Atlantic in winter. Practically speaking all production boats above 36 foot from the past 30 years are solid enough to cross the Atlantic at the right season with a little preparation. Don't let those armchair captains telling you otherwise.

And last: When you start looking for a boat, looks what's available locally. A well maintained Bavaria, Jeanneau or Beneteau might be better than a Hallberg Rassy needing much work. Also the boat needs to speak to you. When I was looking for a boat, my important criteria were: A bed I can enter form the side and can have fun in with my lady without having to worry about hitting my or her head or knees anywhere and a cockpit laid out well enough so I can sail her alone. Your criteria will be different.

[joecai]

Thanks Joh.Ghurt. Very practical information. We pretty much decided it's going to be a mono. Then charter catamarams for friends and family trips, you know, the non-sailing people. Space is not a big concern as long as there is a good bed in the stern. For that I really like the center console HR has.

Yes I do want to go to Norway, at least in the summer. It seems we will be able to get a fairly modern HR for the budget. These boats seem to keep their value too. My thought is to get a better boat to compensate for our lack of experience.

There is one HR in Norway and another in Sweden right now on YachtWorld. That's probably what we are going to do when we are ready. Get a boat there in the summer then sail it to Istanbul for the winter.

And as you mentioned, most modern production boat can do the job. Our only experience in Europe is sailing a chartered Hans 345 in costa brava. The boat was not equipped with a proper set of sails but we had a blast anyway.