Bread Maker Aboard ?

[swisscraft]

Originally Posted by sarafina

That was .35 KWH for the total cycle.

Hi Sarafina,

stupid question - I found this 0.35 KHW as well but on a UK page. This indicates its 240 V and not 120V as per US standard. So if I do the math it would be double on the lower voltage. Means 700 Watt for a cycle at 120 Volt. Adding 10% inverter loss it would need 770/12 = 64 A!

Hope someone corrects my assumptions as I was hoping is more in the 20 A range!!!

Thanks Marco

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by swisscraft

stupid question - I found this 0.35 KHW as well but on a UK page. This indicates its 240 V and not 120V as per US standard. So if I do the math it would be double on the lower voltage. Means 700 Watt for a cycle at 120 Volt. Adding 10% inverter loss it would need 770/12 = 64 A!

A watt is a watt.

350 W will draw just under 3 A at 120 V, 1.5 A at 240 V, and 32 A at 12 V w/ 10% losses in the inverter.

So on a US boat with a US appliance, the inverter will draw 32 A from the 12 V DC batteries and deliver 3 A at 120 V 60 Hz AC to the appliance.

An EU boat with an EU appliance will draw the same 32 A from the 12V DC battery bank and deliver 1.5 A at 240 V 50 Hz AC to the appliance.

[Kindle]

Ok, I finally got around to trying out the no-knead bread. I did the "faster" white bread recipe and it took about 25 min. to bake. It was WONDERFUL! My husband had serious doubts about me trying out this do-nothing-to-it recipe but he thought it was much better than anything I have been able to make with the breadmaker. I would have followed Hud's lead and posted a pic but the whole loaf was eaten in less than an hour Now I can't wait to get the 5min artisan bread book and experiment with different flavors.

[mbianka]

Seems what this world needs is a small 12 volt breadmaker. Or at least that's what I need. Between boats and the RV's it seems to me there would be a market for it. Bread makers are not that complicated: a motor. a small heating element and some simple control electronics.

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by mbianka

Seems what this world needs is a small 12 volt breadmaker. Or at least that's what I need. Between boats and the RV's it seems to me there would be a market for it. Bread makers are not that complicated: a motor. a small heating element and some simple control electronics.

It would still be (less 10%) the same pull on the batteries. If it employs a 600 watt heating element (watts, unlike amps, IS a measure of work, as is horsepower, which is 746 watts per 1 hp) it is going to draw 50 amps with no Pewgert effect, but if your battery bank is small, you will have voltage sag to maybe as low as 10 volts, so the amp draw to do the same work of 600 watts is going to be 60 amps. That is going to be one healthy and large cord to plug in.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

It would still be (less 10%) the same pull on the batteries. If it employs a 600 watt heating element (watts, unlike amps, IS a measure of work, as is horsepower, which is 746 watts per 1 hp) it is going to draw 50 amps with no Pewgert effect, but if your battery bank is small, you will have voltage sag to maybe as low as 10 volts, so the amp draw to do the same work of 600 watts is going to be 60 amps. That is going to be one healthy and large cord to plug in.

Bob:

Well, yeah that's a lot of amps to pull out of battery bank. But, doesn't an inverter have to provide that same amount of power ultimately and then some when using a 120 volt machine on board? You can't get blood from a stone after all. You are still starting with the same 12 volt power source. Another alternative is to just forget the heating element and have the twelve volt bread maker mix. knead and rise the dough. I don't have an inverter on my boat but, I could use my Honda 2000 eu generator with a 120 volt bread maker. But. I would not want to run it for three hours just make a loaf of bread but, to bake a loaf of bread for 45 minutes maybe. So maybe a 12 volt /120 volt hybrid breadmaker might be an option for us smaller boats. 12 volt operation mixes kneads and rises the dough. Then plug it into a 120 volt generator just to bake it and you could also recharge some of the 12 volt battery bank at the same time as the bread is baking.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by mbianka

. . . Another alternative is to just forget the heating element and have the twelve volt bread maker mix. knead and rise the dough. . . .

The basic idea of the "bread making machine" is to have it take care of everything except adding the ingredients at the beginning.
- - The amount of time it takes to mix/knead the dough by hand is about 5 to 10 minutes. And you only do this twice for normal bread. All of the rest of the time does not involve any motors or hand motions. It is just waiting for the bread to rise (once, twice, or three times) and then baking in your oven.
See: Bread 101 - Bread Making - Bread Recipes Directions - How to Make Bread from Scratch

- - So basically for anything less than "set it and forget it" bread making, doing it by hand is the most efficient and electrically economical method.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by Kindle

Ok, I finally got around to trying out the no-knead bread. I did the "faster" white bread recipe and it took about 25 min. to bake. It was WONDERFUL! My husband had serious doubts about me trying out this do-nothing-to-it recipe but he thought it was much better than anything I have been able to make with the breadmaker. I would have followed Hud's lead and posted a pic but the whole loaf was eaten in less than an hour Now I can't wait to get the 5min artisan bread book and experiment with different flavors.

This is our biggest problem with the bread. It never lasts more then a day.

Try the olive oil dough for sandwich bread. I think it has the best consistency of them all.

I was just about to convince myself to try a bread machine. Maybe I will borrow one before I commit.

Jim

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by jkleins

. . . I was just about to convince myself to try a bread machine. Maybe I will borrow one before I commit.
Jim

Very good idea - could save you a lot of money.
- - Bread machines are not for everyone. For one thing the bottom of the loaf looks a bit funny with the stirring paddles stuck in the bread.
- - The loaf coming out of the machine comes out in one shape only. You cannot make "round loaves" or bagguettes or rolls. Granted you can use the machine for mixing and kneading and rising and then remove the dough and shape or section it yourself for baking in the oven. But this is only a minor convenience over making the bread totally by hand.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by osirissail

The basic idea of the "bread making machine" is to have it take care of everything except adding the ingredients at the beginning.
- - The amount of time it takes to mix/knead the dough by hand is about 5 to 10 minutes. And you only do this twice for normal bread. All of the rest of the time does not involve any motors or hand motions. It is just waiting for the bread to rise (once, twice, or three times) and then baking in your oven.
See: Bread 101 - Bread Making - Bread Recipes Directions - How to Make Bread from Scratch

- - So basically for anything less than "set it and forget it" bread making, doing it by hand is the most efficient and electrically economical method.

You are absolutely right. But, at home I don't do it or I should say have not done it in years. But, I will use the bread maker often. To paraphrase a scene from Apocalpse Now. I love the smell of fresh baked bread in the morning. It smells like good eating. It would be nice to have the same convinence of a small bread maker on board that did not use too much energy. Even firing up the oven to bake the bread if manually prepared really heats up the cabin especially if you are in the tropics. Also uses up precious propane. A small counter top bread maker not so much. Maybe the answer is to find a 120 volt bread maker that you can run off an inverter for the mixing, kneading, rising cycles but, allows you do a manual bake mode using the on board generator. Though come to think of it a toaster oven would accomplish the same thing. So maybe the manual method like you mentioned really makes the most sense.

[osirissail]

There is a reason why the cost of the Honda EU2000i went from $600 when it was introducted to about $1000-$1200 these days. - The units are just so convenient having a small AC generator to run stuff like a bread maker, microwave, toaster oven, air conditioner or battery charger, or hand power tools. It is now unusual to see a mid sized or even small cruising boat without one strapped on deck.
- - The modern world does have some nice conveniences over the "old days." There are those who think you must "suffer" like your ancestors did, or like me, think I went cruising to enjoy the experience in reasonable comfort and not self-imposed hardships.

[mbianka]

Yes the Honda 2000 does come in handy especially on an electric propulsion boat like mine. It not only helps charge the 12 & 48 volt battery banks. But, allows me to use all sorts of power tools including a wet/dry vac that makes cleaning/emptying the bilge a snap. Also provides extra power for the windlass. Hmmm, never thought about using it for cooking but, yes it could do that too! Might save the day if the propane runs out or maybe eliminate the propane use altogether. One less thing to blow up on board.

[eoffermann]

Originally Posted by anjou

I would love to know more too cos once ive got the cow teathered on the foredeck and feeding on the crops growing on top of the wheelhouse, the only thing I will be short of is bread.
Oh yeah, a coup of chucks wouldnt go amiss either, and a pig, and a few lambs.

How much electric do bread makers use?

I wish Cruiser's Forum just had a "like" button a la Facebook.

[captainKJ]

you can try one of these instead of a generator. loose weight at the same time

http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/p...d_machine.html

[Katiusha]

Originally Posted by mbianka

...
Even firing up the oven to bake the bread if manually prepared really heats up the cabin especially if you are in the tropics. Also uses up precious propane.
...

Just some thoughts for those who don't want/can't get a breadmaker.

1. Mixing by hand: you can mix using a regular hand-held mixer with dough attachments. It never takes me more than 5 min to get a nicely mixed dough with a hand-held mixer. Usually 3 min is enough.

2. Propane usage: one Italian lady taught me a nice propane saving trick. You don't worry about letting the dough rise perfectly. Whenever you are ready to bake it, first you put the loaf in the oven, then you turn the oven on. The dough finishes rising while the oven is warming up. Baking time is shortened by the time it takes to warm the oven. Check doneness by knocking on the crust as usual. The bread ends up nicely bubbly with a better crust (don't forget to spray water inside the oven as usual).

3. Freshly baked bread in the morning: [from the same Italian lady]. Make dough in the evening, shape it, and put it in the fridge. In the morning, put it in the oven, turn the oven on, and start doing your morning procedures. By the time you're done making coffee, the bread is ready.

This works so well for me, that a bread maker is not needed. But it's different for everyone...