Are watermakers losing their relevance?

[Pizzazz]

I have spent a lot of time looking at this and built some smaller water makers. The smaller you go the harder it gets and also relatively more expensive.

The size is determined by the size of the membranes and they come in specific sizes.

12x1.8” is the Powersurvivor membrane that needs about 50W power to make 1.2 gph

14x2.5” needs 150W to make 3.5 gph and the upper sizes are more or less linear.

Spectra is different, about 3x more efficient but also 3x more expensive.

No matter how you source your parts you cannot get below $1,000 parts cost if you insist on proper parts (stainless pump, fiberglass vessel, quality motor).

I can send you plans and parts sources to build a small one yourself but it is hard to make a business out of it. When you add marketing, warranty, support, shipping and installation, it is hard to make a profit on anything that retails for less than $2,500. The market is too small.

SV Pizzazz
Main watermaker: 14x2.5 membrane, 3.5 gph, 12A draw, stainless steel pump, 12V motor, fiberglass pressure vessel, quiet.

Backup: Powersurvivor 35

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by newhaul

said it before say it again like your on the wrong coast.
The old powersurvivor35' s pop up on craigslist here a couple times a year for under a grand . I picked up a spare with a new membrane for 500 a while back .
I can keep an eye out for ya .

You could be right . I’m on my way now. I’m just about to cross over to the eastern side of Newfoundland (via the Stait of Belle Isle). After that we’ll likely start our westward trek, after spending a few years exploring the eastern shore. So I should be there in about 15 years at the pace I travel .

I’ve looked hard at the Spectra line. I’d love to get the 150model (the one up from the poswersurvivor I think). It seems to be the sweet spot of power demands and efficiency. But I’d probably do fine with a PS35 as well. When the sun is shining I make more than enough power.

… so sure, keep an eye out for me. I can certainly manage $500.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

, as much as .50c a gallon. As much water as we use that would be about $ 75 a week.

Damn!!!! That's 150 gal a WEEK. in cruising mode my wife and I use 150 gal every 3-4 weeks and that's taking showers on the boat. What are you doing with all this water (no need to answer as that's thread drift)

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

I have spent a lot of time looking at this and built some smaller water makers. The smaller you go the harder it gets and also relatively more expensive.

The size is determined by the size of the membranes and they come in specific sizes.

12x1.8” is the Powersurvivor membrane that needs about 50W power to make 1.2 gph

14x2.5” needs 150W to make 3.5 gph and the upper sizes are more or less linear.

Spectra is different, about 3x more efficient but also 3x more expensive.

No matter how you source your parts you cannot get below $1,000 parts cost if you insist on proper parts (stainless pump, fiberglass vessel, quality motor).

I can send you plans and parts sources to build a small one yourself but it is hard to make a business out of it. When you add marketing, warranty, support, shipping and installation, it is hard to make a profit on anything that retails for less than $2,500. The market is too small.

SV Pizzazz
Main watermaker: 14x2.5 membrane, 3.5 gph, 12A draw, stainless steel pump, 12V motor, fiberglass pressure vessel, quiet.

Backup: Powersurvivor 35

Yes, please email them to me svl40cosmos at gmail dot com

I wonder if a small membrane can be run on 40 watts? Does the efficiency drop off when not using the full 50 watts?

Being on a catamaran, my setup also uses a booster pump which consumes 3.5 amps @ 12v. This may kill my dream of the 24/7 operation.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

You could be right . I’m on my way now. I’m just about to cross over to the eastern side of Newfoundland (via the Stait of Belle Isle). After that we’ll likely start our westward trek, after spending a few years exploring the eastern shore. So I should be there in about 15 years at the pace I travel .

I’ve looked hard at the Spectra line. I’d love to get the 150model (the one up from the poswersurvivor I think). It seems to be the sweet spot of power demands and efficiency. But I’d probably do fine with a PS35 as well. When the sun is shining I make more than enough power.

… so sure, keep an eye out for me. I can certainly manage $500.

There is one in the classified section right now...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...er-222009.html

[mikedefieslife]

I have been running an energy recovery 25-30l (12amp) DC watermaker for the past three months. I recently have run into a problem it and had to go back to filling up jerry cans, or taking the boat to a marina. It was like going back to the stone age. I got so used to it in such a short period of time. I'd go so far as to say it's an even better convenience onboard than either a fridge or a freezer.

[Leo Ticheli]

Water Makers are not financially justified, but neither is boat ownership, at least for most of us. I'm very happy with my little Spectra 150 although I doubt I would have bought nearly enough water to pay for it.

Fair winds,
Leo

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Leo Ticheli

Water Makers are not financially justified, but neither is boat ownership, at least for most of us. I'm very happy with my little Spectra 150 although I doubt I would have bought nearly enough water to pay for it.

Fair winds,
Leo

nothing about boats is cost effective .
But with the watermakers you don't just count the water there is also a major convenience being able to fill your tanks while sailing from one place to the next .

More so on my side of the world.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

I have spent a lot of time looking at this and built some smaller water makers. The smaller you go the harder it gets and also relatively more expensive.

The size is determined by the size of the membranes and they come in specific sizes.

12x1.8” is the Powersurvivor membrane that needs about 50W power to make 1.2 gph

14x2.5” needs 150W to make 3.5 gph and the upper sizes are more or less linear.

Spectra is different, about 3x more efficient but also 3x more expensive.

No matter how you source your parts you cannot get below $1,000 parts cost if you insist on proper parts (stainless pump, fiberglass vessel, quality motor).

I can send you plans and parts sources to build a small one yourself but it is hard to make a business out of it. When you add marketing, warranty, support, shipping and installation, it is hard to make a profit on anything that retails for less than $2,500. The market is too small.

SV Pizzazz
Main watermaker: 14x2.5 membrane, 3.5 gph, 12A draw, stainless steel pump, 12V motor, fiberglass pressure vessel, quiet.

Backup: Powersurvivor 35

I have a little wonder 160 watermaker and the 12 volt motor is totally shot,
They want $1200-00 for a new 12 volt DC motor,

Do you have any info on a 12 volt motor alternative that can be used in place of the Little Wonder DC motor,,
I was thinking of a starter motor off a car engine, But I think the power draw would be way too high,

Thanks in advance,
Brian,

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by alctel

There is one in the classified section right now...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...er-222009.html

Thanks. I missed that. Once I get back to semi-civilization I'll check it out. I'm cruising the northern sections of Newfoundland right now. Sitting here waiting for a weather/current window to run the Strait of Belle Isle.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It’s location specific, in the US getting water isn’t hard and it’s always free and good quality. In the Bahamas it can very often mean 5 gls at a time, can often be very bad water and your paying for it sometimes too, as much as .50c a gallon. As much water as we use that would be about $ 75 a week. I think free good water is often what makes places cruising destinations in the Bahamas.

Yeah, you use a lot of water, I think you said 25-30 gal per day (although it's not that much really with 2 people and basically household style consumption: "We flush with it, wash the boat with it, do all of our laundry with it, shower with it, wash dishes, wash the anchor chain etc.").

But purely from a budget perspective (and ignoring the convenience factor, which is significant) the cost of buying that water really adds up. Even at half of your consumption it would be easy to pay $100 month for water.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I figure the lack of laundry cost offsets the costs of running the Watermaker, once you pay for one, they save money, and water isn’t a concern.

Not many people noticed this. The cost and inconvenience of doing laundry ashore while cruising is also high.

Add the cost of laundry to the cost of buying water too and that's even more eaten off the cruising budget each month.

I admit there us quite a capital outlay to buy the watermaker, the washing machine, the solar panels, the batteries, the generator, etc, to run all this, but once you have them you are saving money every day.

Plus the convenience factor in addition.

[mikedefieslife]

Here's a typical day trying to get water in Europe.

I needed around 60l, so I hop into the dinghy and head to fuel dock/marina. I ask if I can fill up with water and how much it will be. They tell me the water is free, so I pull out my jerry cans. "oh no, we can't fill jerry cans." Eventually I presuaded them to let me. Cue the the water coming out of their hose at at a rate of around 0.5l per minute. "Can it go faster?" "No sorry it's broken".

The reason I went to that dock, is because previously I was visiting the boatyard close by. I ordered some gear from them and bought a few more things from their chandlery. I asked inside if I could get 60l of water on my way out. "sure, should be fine" was the answer.

When in the yard I started filling up, and an angry boat washing woman then told me to stop. A man who works there than came over and said it's not allowed to take water. I told them that I had asked inside and I'd been buying things from them anyhow. He got on the phone to his bosses. I continued to fill up whilst he was chatting away. He said "ok this time, but next time you have to go to the marina fuel dock as our water is more expensive".

This is the type of crap you get nearly every time trying to get even small amounts of water.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Oh, you’re good at this rationalization stuff . If I went for one it would definitely be DC/solar driven. I’m even more sold!

… except I still can't justify the ~$4K given our usage rates and current location. Any help with that?

How about a SeawaterPro model for half that price? https://seawaterpro.com/shop?olsPage=products

A 10GPH unit seems like it would be more than enough given your consumption of only 2 gal per day.

[Franziska]

Interesting. Where about in Europe?

We did never had a similar an issue doing that (coast between Poland and Southern Brittany.

If we are at anchor we try to fill water Jerry cans when we also need some fuel. First fill the fuel jerry cans and than the water tanks.

If we don't need fuel, we just fill the water cans on one of the pontoons which is not to close to the Marina offices. Never had someone complain.
Sometimes "those who ask will get answers" does not work out great.

Usually we fill about 10-15x5Liter cans.

But than again our dinghy has a big hold where no-one sees the water cans once they are filled.
In the medium term I do think about installing a 100l bladder tank with transfer tank in the dinghies hold.

So far I guess one would need to catch us in the act ;-)
Probably we were just lucky.

Once we are full time again, a water maker is very high on our list of things to get. Especially as we hate the camping atmosphere of marinas and almost always anchor.

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Here's a typical day trying to get water in Europe.

I needed around 60l, so I hop into the dinghy and head to fuel dock/marina. I ask if I can fill up with water and how much it will be. They tell me the water is free, so I pull out my jerry cans. "oh no, we can't fill jerry cans." Eventually I presuaded them to let me. Cue the the water coming out of their hose at at a rate of around 0.5l per minute. "Can it go faster?" "No sorry it's broken".

The reason I went to that dock, is because previously I was visiting the boatyard close by. I ordered some gear from them and bought a few more things from their chandlery. I asked inside if I could get 60l of water on my way out. "sure, should be fine" was the answer.

When in the yard I started filling up, and an angry boat washing woman then told me to stop. A man who works there than came over and said it's not allowed to take water. I told them that I had asked inside and I'd been buying things from them anyhow. He got on the phone to his bosses. I continued to fill up whilst he was chatting away. He said "ok this time, but next time you have to go to the marina fuel dock as our water is more expensive".

This is the type of crap you get nearly every time trying to get even small amounts of water.

[Lepke]

A watermaker doesn't have to cost several Gs.
I have a powerboat and my high pressure pump doubles as a pressure washer.
I use a Cat pump larger than I need for water making, Chinese housings and US membranes. I could run 4 2540 membranes but only use 2. I make 30-40 gph depending on water temp. Cost was about $2000. Pump and motor from a farm supply was about $800, housings about $125 found on Alibaba.com. I know people running Chinese membranes and they test about like mine.

I started with much smaller setups. You can use a pump and motor from an 120v electric pressure washer, inverter and decent alternator on your engine to stay ahead of the battery draw. The pump draws less amps than as a washer because it operates at about 1/2 pressure. 900 vs 1800psi. Somewhere around 7-9 amps AC. More to start.
If you're somewhere where you can pull into fresh water to make water, a home RO system will work. Many of the home RV pumps are already DC volts.
I run a UV light after the membranes and filters before. I've had water tested from all my homemade systems and in fresh water they test almost pure, TDS 0 to 2. In salt water the only difference is more TDS as usual.
And you can find people on Youtube selling systems for around $1500us.