STORM Preparation in Marinas

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by chala

Because it is obvious.

The almighty Gord will tell you that the subject has been beaten to death.







Yes I do, in using the proper cleat hitch



Cleat Hitch | How to tie the Cleat Hitch for a Dock Line | Boating Knots

There's more than one proper cleat hitch.

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/trail...leat-hitch.asp

If I tried your proper method with my docklines on my dock, 1. I'd fill up the cleat quite rapidly with very few crosses. 2. I don't feel secure leaving the boat unattended without any locking twists on the cleat.

[Hudson Force]

Chala, It's not to our advantage to not discuss a topic simply because it been a topic before. You may have disapproved of the cleat hitch photo by which side of the horn the first wrap was placed, but as a breast line, there is no far side of the cleat. More likely you are speaking of the extra wrap at the base of the cleat. This is a variation of my choice analogous to the extra wraps around the piling and allowing the line to be fully released from the horn for adjusting.

If the extra wrap at the base is the source of your disapproval, then I absolutely agree with you. In a storm condition there is likely enough friction with the line on the horns alone to make adjustment manageable.

Of course I took this photo as a demonstration of what I choose in a storm condition at a dock. In a real storm preparation I would avoid breast lines as the most supporting dock lines and choose longer lines where the line would be meeting the cleat at an angle.

Again, don't hold back. Free free to express your opinions. You seem to be hinting at some good advice.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

If I tried your proper method with my docklines on my dock, 1. I'd fill up the cleat quite rapidly with very few crosses. 2. I don't feel secure leaving the boat unattended without any locking twists on the cleat.

Same here, which is why when setting up for Typhoon season the eyes go on the onboard cleats so that the boat can be lined out away from the dock via strong points.

The one exception is if I am staying onboard then the very heavy lines go to the primary winches on the stern via the aft bollards and the capstan on the bow can take up on the bow storm lines.

[kmacdonald]

The obvious point is that no cleat hitch, proper or improper, should be used to tie up to the dock in preparation for a hurricane. The boat shouldn't be at a dock.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

.......
......... The one exception is if I am staying onboard then the very heavy lines go to the primary winches on the stern via the aft bollards and the capstan on the bow can take up on the bow storm lines.

I've made this choice too, but found that, in order to keep a clear lead to the winches and capstan, I often need to clear away a section of my life lines. I've also taken a line to my keel stepped mast just above the deck at times.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

The obvious point is that no cleat hitch, proper or improper, should be used to tie up to the dock in preparation for a hurricane. The boat shouldn't be at a dock.

that statement is so area dependent to be laughable. In my neck of the woods there aren't any yards that will haul more than a dozen boats, and most of the well protected holes are draft prohibited.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

The obvious point is that no cleat hitch, proper or improper, should be used to tie up to the dock in preparation for a hurricane. The boat shouldn't be at a dock.

Contrary to this thought, there are appropriate times for a boat to be secured to a dock during a hurricane. I've been at a dock for two hurricanes when this choice was best for me.

One was within the Bahamas at a place where I didn't have a safe time to run for something better. I was at a dock that was within a canal cut through limestone and around two ninety degree turns. My slip was wide with cement pilings and, being on an island, not subject to a large surge of high water. We experience 110 mph winds and no damage.

The other was a less severe hurricane at Cat 1 and I was up and estuary about forty miles from the coast and on a secondary creek with little fetch. My Son checked my lines as my boat was in Florida and I was in San Francisco. Still, no damage for me with this event.

More often, I have agreed with your choice to be away from the dock, but it's best to understand all the options and know about all the choices in various situations.

[chala]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

There's more than one proper cleat hitch.

How To Tie A Cleat Hitch - Trailering - BoatUS Magazine

If I tried your proper method with my docklines on my dock, 1. I'd fill up the cleat quite rapidly with very few crosses. 2. I don't feel secure leaving the boat unattended without any locking twists on the cleat.

It is why professionals use “garcette”.

[JPA Cate]

Something that might help the communications here is for the posters to use photos of the connections they are writing about, and to describe the advantages of the strategies involved in using them. This would be especially helpful in terms of cleats and "garcettes", and also, of having the lines adjustable from the boat or the dock, which will also be a strategy based concept.

We prefer loops on the dock cleats, and one round turn plus a two half hitches on our cleats, but one round turn will not be enough, as Hudson pointed out, when the winds are above 60, for a small person like me to have any control. For people who have to leave their boats, possibly, with doubled lines, they could have one each way, an adjustable one on the dock and one on the boat as well.

A

[Blue Crab]

And even for everyday use, my old man thought each dockline should be adjustable both ways, and certainly for bad weather. I own many many docklines. Too many really. I'm thinking of cleaning out that locker of all the handsome but unstretchable lines with their beautiful non-adjustable spliced eyes.

To dad!

[RTB]

If you are on a floating dock, what difference does it make? If you are on the boat at a fixed dock, maybe adjustments should be made from onboard. Surge may prevent you from being able to get off.

Who is staying on the boat in a cat 4 hurricane? I dock boats for a living (and live aboard full time), and even in 30 knots, it's pretty tough to pull a boat against wind. Not as bad with sailboats, but 40-50 motor/vessels with huge windage, forget it.

If you plan to leave the boat during the storm, best leave adjustment at the dock so marina staff can make changes if needed, but hopefully you got it right before leaving your (properly storm prepped) boat to others to care for.

Ralph

[kmacdonald]

Agreed RTB. There won't be any meaningful line adjustments made during a hurricane, typhoon, cyclone or what ever else you chose to call it. Preparation is done BEFORE the hurricane, not DURING it. Any attempt to adjust lines in hurricane force winds is almost suicide.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by RTB

Who is staying on the boat in a cat 4 hurricane? I dock boats for a living (and live aboard full time), and even in 30 knots, it's pretty tough to pull a boat against wind. Not as bad with sailboats, but 40-50 motor/vessels with huge windage, forget it.

Ralph

Hi Ralph,
Every Typhoon Shelter situation and the destructive storm itself is different, so it is hard to make absolute statements about what a skipper should do, except that it should be in their comfort zone.

IF the marina is very well protected from any ground swell and heavy waves, then deciding to stay on board to adjust the storm lines and any ground tackle during any lull is reasonable.

As the wind direction changes, you are monitoring chafe and unbalanced lines. Using the capstan and primary winches to adjust the load.

If you don't stay onboard, then you have probably lined the boat away from the finger docks and it is harder to adjust during those lulls

At remote anchoages, live aboard crew often stay onboard to monitor as well, if they have no option, so it is not suicide as some arm chair sailors suggest

Typhoons are a fact of life in the Philippines and you just deal with it by choosing your location wisely

The SBYC in Subic is tucked way inside the inner harbour of the Port which is inside a large bay with a very narrow entrance protected by an island and shallow reefs to remove 90% of the ground swell from entering.

We feel no swell inside the marina so just dealing with windage and I am happy to stay on board at that Marina, but I worry about the deteriorating condition of the docks

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Agreed RTB. There won't be any meaningful line adjustments made during a hurricane, typhoon, cyclone or what ever else you chose to call it. Preparation is done BEFORE the hurricane, not DURING it. Any attempt to adjust lines in hurricane force winds is almost suicide.

I agree with kmacdonald's wise thought that there is no option to adjust lines during hurricane force winds; however, there is usually five to ten hours before the higher winds when the wind is rising through the forties, fifties and sixties and this is a very important time to make adjustments if you have set up the possibility. The odds are less likely that you will be exposed to the calm eye, but that's not a time for being out as the opposing wall can hit very quickly. I've only been within the eye of a hurricane once and I was not taking any risk at being out in the calm.

There is the same length of hours after the hurricane force winds when a vessel is still subject to damage. Here again, while the wind is diminishing through the sixties to forties, much damage can be avoided by adjusting to pilings or lines that have failed. It's also a good time to clear your cockpit drains and scupper of all the flying debris,- leaves and twigs,etc.- that can be flooding your cockpit, side decks or filling your dinghy if you left it on davits.

Still, my best choice is anchored on a long chain with one great anchor, without neighboring boats, well inland, with little fetch, in good shallow holding, with a forgiving shoreline, little debris, and high surrounding topography.

I rarely get everything I want!

[RTB]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Still, my best choice is anchored on a long chain with one great anchor, without neighboring boats, well inland, with little fetch, in good shallow holding, with a forgiving shoreline, little debris, and high surrounding topography.

I rarely get everything I want!

Local knowledge for the area is key here. As a cruiser working my way up the east coast for the first time, how do I find that safe haven? I would start looking for a place to hide as the storm nears. Maybe 3 or 4 days out looking at the projected path, which changes a little with each forecast. You probably have quite a few spots in a notebook, after cruising the east coast for (how many?) years. This is exactly why I haven't made it north of Georgia in a couple of tries. This was a good move for us with Matthew last year. I've met so many boaters that dealt with all the devastation north of here after the storm. A friend just left here last weekend heading to the Bahamas, and posted pics on Facebook of the boats littering the shores of the ICW south of here, all the way to Daytona. Plenty of nice boats with owners that got it wrong.

I'm guessing your Bahamas Marina was Great Harbour Cay in the Berry Islands? Definitely, a hurricane hole. Hurricane Hole at Stocking Island (George Town area) is a safe-ish spot, but not without damaged boats. Plus, most moorings will be occupied by locals. Hurricane Marthew Vessel Salvage Report – Stocking Island, George Town, Bahamas – Oh Sail Yes!


Well, great thread. June isn't that far away. I'll be ready!