Poll: Which Fender Camp Are You In ?

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by simonmd

Ok, whoever taught you this is an idiot, plain and simple. I don't care if youre going to a private slip, mooring alongside another boat or going stern too (Med' style), fenders are there for a reason. To protect yours and MOST importantly, other people's property. Also, to expect crew to run up and down with loose fenders 'just in case' is asking for trouble and inviting someone to get hurt.

Just for the record, the person who taught me this has been running two separate charter companies, one in the BVI and one in the States, for many years now. He's been a certified ASA instructor for most of that time as well. In his 'off' time he captains 80+ foot luxury yachts.. The other instructor, who clearly concurred, has over 30 years sailing/cruising/running stuff experience.
Not idiots. Maybe, just maybe, they taught me an appropriate skill (docking), and you, sir, are the idiot that can't park his boat?

As a few others have pointed out, the fenders aren't there to support reckless driving, they are there to keep the boat from rubbing on the dock WHILE it's tied up. I believe I was taught well, but I just wanted to see why the majority of folks are afraid to dock without fenders deployed.

And yes of course, as others have pointed out, its clearly not a cut-n-dry deal. But, what I'm seeing is an "always" camp, and an "only when appropriate" camp. I haven't heard any "never"'s yet...

[simonmd]

As a few others have pointed out, the fenders aren't there to support reckless driving, they are there to keep the boat from rubbing on the dock WHILE it's tied up

Correct.

However, if you'd have thought his advise was spot on you wouldn't have asked the question and as over THREE times the people in the above poll seem to agree with me, there's no need to get on the defensive.

Just because anyone is 'XYZ' certified doesn't make ALL their judgements correct. It may be their opinion but I guarantee you I could find MANY other 'certified' instructors who have the same view as me.

The safest way to dock a boat is to make sure as much is done BEFORE completing the manouver.

Maybe, just maybe, they taught me an appropriate skill (docking), and you, sir, are the idiot that can't park his boat?

Try berthinng a 57ft 35ton flybridge with no bow thruster and the windage of a barn in a crosswind, stern too with no boat or dock either side and THEN you can be qualified to critisise my abilities to dock a boat, ok?

[FSMike]

I too was instructed to not deploy fenders until after the boat was docked, the rationale being that accidental snagging of a fender could possibly result in damage and/or partial loss of control which could result in more damage. After all, they are called "fenders" (as in to fend off), not "bumpers" (as in to bump into).
Now that I'm older and theoretically wiser what do I do? I do whichever I think the situation calls for.
There needs to be one more choice for the poll responses.

[Johnathon123]

In a marina I used to leave my boat at I would tie my boat up with 2 fenders between it and the floating wharf and 6 fenders on the other side to protect me from the lunatic in the pen next door!

He used to term it "collateral damage" whenever he "bumped" into me. Always fixed it but gees it got a little tiring after a while.

I ended up slipping the dock master a few $ each quarter to make sure his staff ran down and helped him in and out. He never did stop carrying on about how good the service was at the marina.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by thinwater

From what I see, you leave them hanging over the side .

I hide fenders behind the gunwale (see avatar), leastwise when in "protected" waters. Takes less than a minute to deploy/hide all ten of them.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by simonmd

Correct.

However, if you'd have thought his advise was spot on you wouldn't have asked the question and as over THREE times the people in the above poll seem to agree with me, there's no need to get on the defensive.

Just because anyone is 'XYZ' certified doesn't make ALL their judgements correct. It may be their opinion but I guarantee you I could find MANY other 'certified' instructors who have the same view as me.

The safest way to dock a boat is to make sure as much is done BEFORE completing the manouver.

Try berthinng a 57ft 35ton flybridge with no bow thruster and the windage of a barn in a crosswind, stern too with no boat or dock either side and THEN you can be qualified to critisise my abilities to dock a boat, ok?

Sorry Simon, but your irrational criticism of a person you don't know (and a friend) is, to me, a perfectly approprate time to make a defensive comment.

I'm a skeptical person, and I agree I would never trust a 'certificate' of any kind but, I was there, I know the person and his experience, and I do infact trust his (their) judgment in this particular matter.

Obviously there is more than one "right" opinion, which is the purpose of this poll, to observe the various opinions, not to criticize any of them.

The reason this question came to my mind is because, while I'm quite comfortable docking other people's 40 foot boats with crew, I have yet to dock my own boat singlehanded. I thought, for a moment, that maybe I should worry a little and join the 'just in case' club. But now, after thinking on it a bit, and reading the various opinions, I'm inclined to go with what I know and put my effort into not bouncing off the dock. I'll deploy fenders as needed after I'm in the slip, just the way I was taught.

I do appreciate the others opinions and I'd still like to hear more. I can respect that people worry about scratching their gelcoat, but to claim that docking without fenders is somehow idiotic and dangerous to everyone involved is a little over the top in my opinion. But what do I know...

Carry On!

[capttman]

I like my boat and she takes care of me so I treat her right and dress her up in fenders....

[osirissail]

Unfortunately, there are always people who can only deal in "absolutely this" and "never that" without realizing that there are many shades of difference between the two. They live in a "black and white" world and cannot conceive that really the world is a "gray scale" place.
- - I have been single-handing a 65 ft ketch with a pilothouse, no bow thruster and huge amounts of windage vulnerability. You learn how to do it it in your boat through experience. Many factors such as hull form - bulging beam below the toerail - splashrail or toe rail vinyl railings - rudder type - propeller type - propeller walk - steerage ability in reverse - all influence how you dock your boat. And normally they are different from what somebody else needs to do.
- - I would suggest if you are going to start single-handing that you take your boat our in calm conditions and practice turning the boat with minimal forward or reverse movement. Normally you can turn the boat within less than a boat length in one direction - for example clockwise - but not in the other direction due to the effects of prop walk. This information pre-arms you with the knowledge of how to approach and set up your docking processes.
- - Learning how to control your boat accurately when docking is more worthwhile than 10 fenders hanging over the side. There are too many variables when it comes to docks and piers to state that this or that is the ONLY way to do something.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Unfortunately, there are always people who can only deal in "absolutely this" and "never that" without realizing that there are many shades of difference between the two. They live in a "black and white" world and cannot conceive that really the world is a "gray scale" place.
- - I have been single-handing a 65 ft ketch with a pilothouse, no bow thruster and huge amounts of windage vulnerability. You learn how to do it it in your boat through experience. Many factors such as hull form - bulging beam below the toerail - splashrail or toe rail vinyl railings - rudder type - propeller type - propeller walk - steerage ability in reverse - all influence how you dock your boat. And normally they are different from what somebody else needs to do.
- - I would suggest if you are going to start single-handing that you take your boat our in calm conditions and practice turning the boat with minimal forward or reverse movement. Normally you can turn the boat within less than a boat length in one direction - for example clockwise - but not in the other direction due to the effects of prop walk. This information pre-arms you with the knowledge of how to approach and set up your docking processes.
- - Learning how to control your boat accurately when docking is more worthwhile than 10 fenders hanging over the side. There are too many variables when it comes to docks and piers to state that this or that is the ONLY way to do something.

Unfortunately (or maybe it's fortunate?) my boat doesn't have any prop walk or prop wash! The prop sits right behind the keel, about 10 feet away from the rudder, and it's off centered purposefully to offset the torque

It should still turn fairly tight, but I expect I'll have to be pretty quick with the springline. I'm installing mid-rail cleats for that as well.

I'll try and get my first attempt on video so everyone can have a good laugh at my expense. Maybe that'll relieve some of the tension around here

[capttman]

I have taught many to sail, i'm a licensed captain and can put a boat anywhere I want. yes cocky too, but those who chose not to use fenders are running the risk of one day a power boat putting down a great wake as you stop 6 inches from the dock and then u will say oh s&%$ why didn't I use fenders as u are pushed right in..... The greatest task to being a good sailor is recognizing how to minimize risks..but as the song goes, I did my way........

[cheoah]

I use 'em sometimes, but not in a protected basin with nice floating docks. Gnarly fixed docks and especially pilings present the challenge of not knowing where to put just two or three fenders. My new boat came with 6 of them, rigged to hang horizontally so this will offer more protection and I'll use them more often I bet.

Sure like being on a mooring.

csh

[sailorchic34]

I'm pretty much down to one fender a side now a days sometimes, more a training wheel mentality I guess for me. I don't really need them now, but then I only singlehand a 34' sailboat.

[roger.waite]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

It depends on the docking situation.

x3 on this one. Lovers balance risk, care and protection.

[MarkJ]

Can I quote myself? Please? Please? Please?

Originally Posted by MarkJ

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Nuts.

I am amazed at this thread. I am wholeheartedly in favor of the posters who, like Simonmd, are flabbergasted that anyone would go into a berth without fenders.
Mind you I am eating a chocolate coated 'digestive' that others may not care to nibble.

If you are coming into your own berth, that you have done a zillion times before, and there's no other boats you can smash, well then its your risk and may you suffer the consequences.... But to come into a berth cruising when you don't know it intimately, or near other people boats is CRAZY.

I hate to tell you to STAY away from me, as I would like to meet you at the bar, but stay away from me till you have those puffy cylinders of air filled protection in place, attached, lashed to, and secured correctly.

Now if this instructor, friend or fiend, is about I would be delighted to have it out with him over a martini (with an olive as a fender).


Mark

[callmecrazy]

I understand the concern but, (honest question) what is the likelyhood that a pre-placed fender is going to be in precisely the right location during one of these hypothetical freak accidents? You'd have to have quite a few deployed even just to up the odds a bit.

I can understand if it's a floating dock that doesn't have pilings and might bounce around below your rub-rail, or if there are no pilings at all (med-moor), but for casually passing boats, and fixed piers, I'm just not seeing it...