Poll: How Young? vs Freedom?

[Freerider]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

So you would both allow an 8 year old?

Allow? Why do we feel we have to "allow" people to do things?

Maybe its just me, but i have a serious problem with other people thinking they have the right to decide things for other people.

Survival of the fittest, if you do things and end up dying its nobody's fault but you're own!!

[Endojoe]

Originally Posted by Bash

Government regulation concerning this matter already exists. The Colregs state: Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision. (Rule 5)

I don't see any way a sixteen year old solo circumnavigator can maintain a proper look-out.

That can obviously be read to mean that no single-handed sailor maintain a proper look-out as well...

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Endojoe

That can obviously be read to mean that no single-handed sailor maintain a proper look-out as well...

I have no problem with that interpretation, if you're talking about multi-day passages.

[scook1]

How interesting to see all of the different opinions that exist. It is such a tough question, especially since I always tend to think in terms of my own children. I think it also depends on what exactly the voyage. A 14 year old can do the sailing but probably not do the rest that a circumnavigation entails.

[Endojoe]

Originally Posted by Freerider

Allow? Why do we feel we have to "allow" people to do things?

Maybe its just me, but i have a serious problem with other people thinking they have the right to decide things for other people.

Right effing on! There was an episode of the simpsons once...where Marge was trying to intervene in way, I forget how, and when confronted as to why she felt the need to tell someone else how to live their life, she responded with something like..."Well...I guess I just somehow thought it was my business..." Fail. It's not. If you ever stop and say "There ought to be a law"...there most likely there ought not be a law.

[Cheechako]

Speakeasy... I actually totally agree with you. But I'm a pragmatist... if we dont somehow control the situation, then the gov't does step in to control it.. and you know how well that works! and Bash is right.. every singlehander is in violation... theoretically they could put a stop to singlehanding at any time they want. The USCG has the right to teminate any "unsafe voyage" already.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Freerider

Maybe its just me, but i have a serious problem with other people thinking they have the right to decide things for other people.

A lot of people felt that way about the competition to be the youngest person to fly across North America. Then, in 1996, after a 7-year-old pilot died during her attempt, the FAA finally outlawed attempts at the record.

A seven year old! Her name was Jessica Dubroff. You can find her story on Wikipedia.

[speakeasy]

I hear you, Cheechako. It does seem that the only choices left to us or to the rule makers have devolved to be the best of a bad lot. But then again, one of the reasons many of us have chosen to go cruising is to evade this sort of nonsense and structure a world around us dependent upon our own resources and choices. The big industrial countries are increasingly weighted with tomes of rules but not all the societies around the globe are quite yet. Like Buffet's Where you gonna go when the volcano blows, the thread here asking where you gonna go if we head into a depression comes to mind. I do think we are still heading into a depression, based on a decade of following the machinations of US markets and PTB's attempts to keep the status quo alive without substantive change. We do live in the old chinese curse now, May you live in exciting times.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by speakeasy

We do live in the old chinese curse now, May you live in exciting times.

May you come to the attention of those in authority.

[speakeasy]

Originally Posted by Bash

May you come to the attention of those in authority.

Indeed, Bash! I do hope that curse wasn't aimed at me? As the saying goes, Where's a cop when you need one? Yesterday at the park where owners and dogs gather each morning, a patrol car appeared and started handing out $250 tickets for dogs off leash. The consensus was that the couple with the two purebreed german shephards who'd earlier complained about people letting their dogs run and play, had called the fuzz. Just another day in paradise, where every day's a holiday and every meal a feast.

[cantxsailor]

I left home permanently at 15. I went to school until I didn't see the point anymore and then went travelling. Did I makes bad choices along the way? Lots of them but they didn't kill me or anyone else. Could these bad choices have killed me or someone else? Without a doubt. Was my mom at fault for my choices? Not in the slightest way.

I managed to survive a bunch of scarey situations where older people tried to take advantage of my youth. I will admit to having a very lucky life. I was NOT that smart.

Since reaching the ripe old age of 50 I yearn for the days when the only person I had to answer to was ME. I made choices and I had to live with them, good or bad. Now I could hire a lawyer, shrink, or lobbyist and blame someone else.

Kids have been making life and death choices for millenia. Is only now in this day and age the great universal "WE" have decided that "WE" know better.

Do I want my kid doing something stupid? No of course not. However if they want to do something I'm not going to say no just because it "might" be dangerous.

We can all die at any moment. We try to mitigate the dangers when we can and get on with our lives.

Right now the thing most likely to kill me is boredom. I NEED some adventure and soon.................m

[FSMike]

Stupid parents are in the minority.

Stupid governments are in the majority.

[George Wade]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

The youngest solo sailor debate… set age limits for a Solo Circumnavigation:

Debates are always extraordinarily narrow.

I'd like to see more short handed records: two or three youngsters set off around the world or the island.

Even Lief Erickson did not sail to America single handed: he would have been thought insane to have tried.

[osirissail]

A ha! it is the old "am I my brother's keeper" kind of argument. Not more than a century or less ago the age of maturity was 13 y.o. And still is in many underdeveloped countries. You could marry, own/rule kingdoms, and you were on your own, so to speak. Of course average lifespan was not much more than twice that age so you had to do things quickly. Farm kids drove and still can drive motorized farm equipment at that about that age 13 or 14 y.o.
- - But we are in the 21st Century now where the age of maturity is now variable from 13 to 113 y.o. I have seen folks of all ages act and think like 12 y.o.'s. But then again as mentioned by other posters what if the boat hits somebody or something else - who is liable? Didn't the lastest girl just have an encounter of the 3rd kind with a freighter just a little after she left port?
- - You would have to put so many "If"s and whereas's, and just plain where's on your poll that it would take up the whole forum in order to get a valid consensus. But I personally would side with the letting the parents decide -AND- holding the parents absolutely liable for the actions and consequences of the kid's journey including loss of life penalties as premeditated manslaughter or murder in the cases of loss of the child's life. I bet that would put an end to these "stunts."

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Freerider

Allow? Why do we feel we have to "allow" people to do things?

Maybe its just me, but i have a serious problem with other people thinking they have the right to decide things for other people.

I take it you don't have children? We're not talking about making decisions for "other people" - we're talking about making decisions for children. This should be the job of the parents, but when they are not doing their job, then someone should step in.

Anarchists complain about the government butting in, but when something happens they're the first ones standing in line, cap in hand, bitching loudest that the govenment isn't acting fast enough.