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Old 14-05-2022, 02:54   #16
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Re: How do I set-up this staysail?

You could probably use the fitting on your inner forestay as a gooseneck for a wishbone boom, it is self vanging, and also sheeted with a single sheet and thus self tacking.
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Old 15-05-2022, 00:51   #17
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Re: How do I set-up this staysail?

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Originally Posted by nuku34 View Post
Wideocean7:
I sailed for many years with a boomed staysail on my Joshua ketch. That sail was fine (and was "self tacking" i.e. needing only one sheet) as long as you are close hauled or on a tight reach and the geometry of the sheet is holding the boom down. The problem is that as soon as you ease the single sheet to go off the wind, the end of the boom goes past the point where the sheet is pulling it down, the end of the boom lifts, the leach of the sail goes soft, and the shape of the sail goes to hell. Sorry, this is just the way it is due to simple geometry. The only solution is to put some sort of vang tackle between the boom and the leeward rail to pull the boom down, but of course then the sail is no longer "self tacking". I had a love/hate relationship with that boom and always intended to deep six it and go to a 2 sheet system, but I got lazy and sold the boat with the staysail boom still on it.



The modern "self tacking" jib or staysail uses a transverse traveller track with sliding car, forward of the mast. Usually the sheet goes from the car to a sheave several meters up the front of the mast then inside the mast, out the bottom and back to the cockpit. This allows the car to slide from side to side on the transverse track. In some cases, there are control lines to limit the travel of the car just as you have on the mainsheet traveller. This is a good system especially if the track is a long one.
Thanks Nuku34. I'm imagining it for use as/with the storm jib and mostly for close hauled/reaching. So one of the many options may be a horse rather than fixed track which I could adjust?
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Old 17-05-2022, 03:28   #18
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Re: How do I set-up this staysail?

Wideocean7: not sure what you mean by a "horse", but for me that means an old-style type of traveller which was a basically horizontal pipe held off the deck by end supports. They had a sliding fitting on the pipe that functioned the same as a modern traveller car. Sometimes the end stops were adjustable...
In any case, if you want to ditch the staysail boom and still have only one sheet and also have a reasonable setting sail from close hauled to almost beam reach, you will need a transverse traveller (or horse) in front of the mast, and it needs to extend pretty far out toward the rail on each side. The problem is, most cabin tops (assuming you don't have a flush deck forward of the mast) are too narrow to mount an effective transverse track. I've seen tracks that extend beyond the cabin sides, mounted on frameworks that bolt to the deck. Maybe your "horse" could do the same?
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Old 17-05-2022, 03:57   #19
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Re: How do I set-up this staysail?

I have a similar set up, and this is the second thread recently to discuss this kind of stay sliding “goose neck”.

My gooseneck will slide up the stay. Keep it down normally or the staysail boom will wack the mast. But if you are DDW allow the gooseneck to rise so the boom will clear the safety lines, use a preventer or something to restrict the boom movement and it works wing in wing with the jib pretty well. Did that for setup for 9 days a couple of years back, even tacked a couple of times. The genoa was poled out by the main boom, just using head sails on a delightful downwind passage.

The boom gives a bit more sail area, filling in low and allows you to have reef points as noted above. I have one reef point.

I like the explanation above that back when the nub was more of a fair weather sail. I am coming to a similar conclusion for our boat.

For us the staysail is the most useful and used sail on the boat, and the boom is an asset.

Now also, my boat was designed this way, kinda old school. My staysail tack is far forward, biggish staysail, and I have a good sized sprit so 5’ between fore and inner stays.
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Old 17-05-2022, 21:24   #20
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Re: How do I set-up this staysail?

Thanks nuku34 and hpeer. Using a horse (aka rudimentary hard or rope traveller) will probably not work. The cabin top is narrow enough that it wouldn't provide the leach tension when even slightly off the wind. And extending it beyond the cabin top would be a no-no as it would introduce tripping hazards when walking forward. That would also apply to a fixed track, which expense wise I'd rather not pursue. So I think I'll revert to having a boom sheeted from 2 pad-eyes on either side of the cabin top (which I showed in one of the photos above). The sail is more akin to a storm jib with a high-cut clew which will stay clear of the lifelines. As I'm wanting it more for close-wind work, the sheeting angles should give enough leach tension. If not I'll just have to rig a downhaul/barber-hauler for the times when I might use it a little more off the wind.
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Old 18-05-2022, 04:16   #21
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Re: How do I set-up this staysail?

Wideocean7: I occurred to me that if you have a robust staysail boom, you could sheet it from the midpoint, not the end. Many mainsail booms are sheeted this way. The advantage would be that the geometry would allow the sheet to pull the boom down (vang effect) when the boom is further out than if you used end of boom sheet position. Just a thought...
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Old 18-05-2022, 21:11   #22
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Re: How do I set-up this staysail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuku34 View Post
Wideocean7: I occurred to me that if you have a robust staysail boom, you could sheet it from the midpoint, not the end. Many mainsail booms are sheeted this way. The advantage would be that the geometry would allow the sheet to pull the boom down (vang effect) when the boom is further out than if you used end of boom sheet position. Just a thought...
That's a good idea although I guess I'd have to move the pad-eyes further forward. That's certainly do-able but what I'm trying to do is reverse engineer what's there already rather than redesign the system (and remove head liners to install new fittings). It is seeming most probable that the set-up was a clew outhaul (via turning block at the end of the boom) then a sheet connected to the boom, the two pad-eyes on each side of the cabin top (obviously with blocks) and lead back as a single line to the cockpit. I've taken on board all comments about leach tension when off-wind, but I'll just have to deal with that. I am still very much open to being shown a different method.
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