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Sailor g · 27-01-2012, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

The instruments he had weren't showing the rocks.
Darn, don't you hate it when the rock-o-meter isn't working?

"Captain, portside lateral rockometer display is on the fritz again."
"Very well, fix it right after the VDR."

I think I'll start selling the Ground-o-Meter and Bridge-o-Meter for these commercial vessels like the cruise ship that grounded and ... for the cargo ship that ran through the center of a bridge in Kentucky! What is going on?? A bridge doesn't exactly dive in front of you.

justwaiting · 28-01-2012, 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor g

I think I'll start selling the Ground-o-Meter and Bridge-o-Meter for these commercial vessels like the cruise ship that grounded and ... for the cargo ship that ran through the center of a bridge in Kentucky! What is going on?? A bridge doesn't exactly dive in front of you.

Dont, just Dont lead Costa cruisrs to that footage, it could inspire a whole new pasanger "experience" especialy if they get banned from hitting rocks and islands.

St. Elsewhere · 28-01-2012, 07:13

One more body recovered & activities delayed due to weather . . . .

Name: COSTA CONCORDIA Costa Concordia - Type of ship: Passenger ship - Callsign: IBHD - vesseltracker.com
IMO: 9320544
Time: 28-01-2012 12:02:16 UTC

NEWS:
Salvage crews preparing to pump the diesel fuel and oil from the wreck of the "Costa Concordia" suspended work on Jan 28 after heavy seas made conditions unsafe. A barge carrying pumping equipment that was attached to the ship was withdrawn although work may be resumed in the afternoon, depending on conditions. The wind conditions and waves of more than a metre have also forced the divers of SMIT Salvage to interrupt work but will start up again when conditions improve. Before, divers found the body of a woman on Saturday, bringing the total number of known dead to 17.

Before the work was suspended, crews were installing valves to help pump out six of the ship's fuel tanks. Pumping, originally expected to begin on Jan 28, was expected to be delayed until at least Jan 29. The process of extracting all the fuel is expected to take at least 28 days.

HappySeagull · 28-01-2012, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by justwaiting

Perhaps the biggest factor in what has occurred is rats jumping off the sinking ship because this created questions that the public refused to wait for answers. We all make mistakes, granted his had greater consequents than most of ours. The result was that Schettion has had him self branded as a coward who refuses to take responsibility for his action and a man? who's word can not be trusted.

If it wasn't for the tragic loss of life ... this has all of the hallmarks of the Gilbert & Sullivan opera.

You are right.Consider how, exactly Capt Schettino was to climb back aboard as he was ordered to. How many feet up a rope ladder? and against a flow of panicky folks coming down the same? It's not impossible that he did in fact slip off the steeply heeled deck while helping the passengers load. It may have been he considered it as well to supervise from the water.
Not to say he was heroic, or "right" just that it helps to give a little leeway and allow some options, however they are judged in law and opinion.
The things that aren't in doubt is that he waited too long to make the turn and that he either made a poor assessment of the ship's condition or made the correct one but through hubris, failed to inform anyone of his subtle "best action"to abandon on the beach. Getting the ship to the beach is still a technical issue for me, too, if anyone has a new "factoid" on this? ...

Blue Stocking · 28-01-2012, 10:16

Amazonia, Lamaria, Mari Boeing, Tohatsu Maru, Tifoso, Anzuotegi (sp) are some of the ships I shared responsibility for keeping afloat during my time as a Fire Service, Special services Officer, after water ingress. All of these ships suffered openings along the hull or bottom plates. Never collisions causing bow breaches. Yet they still dont require skin chambers along the hull. Beats Me !!

hellosailor · 28-01-2012, 10:24

"Yet they still dont require skin chambers along the hull. "
Double hulls cost money and reduce profits. You can be certain that some beancounters have counted the beans, and find that insurance costs less than double hulls. After all, if you lose a 15-year-old ship, you get the chance to replace it with a new one, or simply retire it from your fleet.
Came across a newspaper article mentioning Costa was going to be replacing some older ships with new ones and at the same time, re-adjusting their overall passenger capacity. Keeps the bean counters happy and the bottom line up. Except for those pesky wrongful death suits, which are often limited by international law anyhow.

sabray · 28-01-2012, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor g

I think I'll start selling the Ground-o-Meter and Bridge-o-Meter for these commercial vessels like the cruise ship that grounded and ... for the cargo ship that ran through the center of a bridge in Kentucky! What is going on?? A bridge doesn't exactly dive in front of you.

will it be nmea 2000 compliant and inteface with my garmin? I am developing a duhhh o meter. This will alert you that your brain activity is low depth is low and the bridge is low. In case you cant read the charts or electronics. Before you are imperil the duhhh o meter starts a alarm. Duhhhh Duhhhhh Duhhhhh| A I phone App is on its way for other daily duhhh protections. Look out bridge o meter there is competition.

Astrid · 28-01-2012, 11:10

Quote:

Yet they still dont require skin chambers along the hull. Beats Me !!

Hellosailor is quite right! At one time the maritime architect was had the final word in design. Brunnel in building the Great Eastern incorporated watertight bulkheads with piercings for watertight doors and which went up to the weather deck, and a complete double hull. However, over time the shipping companies began to have more of a say in matters of design. Watertight bulkheads began to be stopped at the level of the waterline to make things easier for passengers and the stewards who saw to their needs; double hulls ate up valuable space for cargo and machinery and cost money which could be otherwise used to make the vessel more luxurious. One by one little changes resulted in ships actually becoming a bit less safe than their predecessors. That is not to say that a modern cruise ship is unsafe, just that it is not as absolutely safe as it could be.

Sailor g · 28-01-2012, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabray

will it be nmea 2000 compliant and inteface with my garmin? I am developing a duhhh o meter. This will alert you that your brain activity is low depth is low and the bridge is low. In case you cant read the charts or electronics. Before you are imperil the duhhh o meter starts a alarm. Duhhhh Duhhhhh Duhhhhh| A I phone App is on its way for other daily duhhh protections. Look out bridge o meter there is competition.

Duhhh-Garmin-shmarmin! It seems like they use Visual navigation. It may get annoying with all the beeping & alerts for those whose brain level is always low. (can't explain otherwise hitting a bridge)

**nigel1** · 28-01-2012, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrid

Hellosailor is quite right! At one time the maritime architect was had the final word in design. Brunnel in building the Great Eastern incorporated watertight bulkheads with piercings for watertight doors and which went up to the weather deck, and a complete double hull. However, over time the shipping companies began to have more of a say in matters of design. Watertight bulkheads began to be stopped at the level of the waterline to make things easier for passengers and the stewards who saw to their needs; double hulls ate up valuable space for cargo and machinery and cost money which could be otherwise used to make the vessel more luxurious. One by one little changes resulted in ships actually becoming a bit less safe than their predecessors. That is not to say that a modern cruise ship is unsafe, just that it is not as absolutely safe as it could be.

Guess I should consider myself fortunate in that my present ship is double hulled from collision bulkhead to the stern, and keel to deck

justwaiting · 28-01-2012, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrid

Hellosailor is quite right! At one time the maritime architect was had the final word in design. Brunnel in building the Great Eastern incorporated watertight bulkheads with piercings for watertight doors and which went up to the weather deck, and a complete double hull. However, over time the shipping companies began to have more of a say in matters of design. Watertight bulkheads began to be stopped at the level of the waterline to make things easier for passengers and the stewards who saw to their needs; double hulls ate up valuable space for cargo and machinery and cost money which could be otherwise used to make the vessel more luxurious. One by one little changes resulted in ships actually becoming a bit less safe than their predecessors. That is not to say that a modern cruise ship is unsafe, just that it is not as absolutely safe as it could be.

Agreed, but what it comes down to is how performance is measured. The problem with commercial ventures is that benefits are internalized and costs are externalized. This is where regulation comes in to play, regulation is needed to bring the external costs (ie those cost that are borne by other entities including the public) back to those who benefit from the commercial operation. To provide an example where an operation pollutes there is a need to make the organization pay for the clean up as well as fine the organization for the damage to the environment that the clean up can not rectify. Looking at what has been said about the double skins you only need to think about oil tanker design and the reason why they did moved back to double skins.

Safety at sea is just another of those things, companies to some extent rely on SOLAS to externalize the cost to maximize their own profits. The rescue and subsequence welfare costs of the 4200 people from the" Costa a few lives" will to a great extent be carried by tax payers and those individuals that put their personal time, resource and safety in to imitated rescue effort. If you look at the report in to the Sydney Hobart race disaster it is clear that the parameters had moved towards performance based on speed at the cost of safety.

However, regardless of how safe a ship is designed there is always the "human" element as so wonderfully exemplified by Captain Stuffup. I wish that we could say that he was an unique example but alas that is not the case. I have personaly experienced (on the Queensalnd coast) situations where i delibratly had my yacht outside of marked navigation chanells and keeping a very close eye on the depth sounder being closly passed by coal carriers doing a "rat run"

S/V Alchemy · 28-01-2012, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor g

A bridge doesn't exactly dive in front of you.

Neither does a shoreline. And yet, here we are.

IslandHopper · 28-01-2012, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by nigel1

Guess I should consider myself fortunate in that my present ship is double hulled from collision bulkhead to the stern, and keel to deck

That’s a coincidence, so is mine.....

St. Elsewhere · 29-01-2012, 05:12

Today's Update via VesselTrakker.com. . . .

Name: COSTA CONCORDIA Costa Concordia - Type of ship: Passenger ship - Callsign: IBHD - vesseltracker.com
IMO: 9320544
Time: 29-01-2012 09:27:19 UTC

NEWS:
The search for the 16 people who remain missing was broken off Sunday due to shifting by the half-sunken ship, reported the Italian news agency Ansa. Instruments showed a shift of three and a half centimetres within six hours, reported the agency. The ship is lodged on the underwater boulders upon which it ran aground, but still can tilt as it settles. Too much movement is dangerous for the divers who continue to search the 290-metre-long vessel. Efforts to pump out the ship's fuel were already broken off Saturday due to inclement weather. A 17th body discovered Saturday has been confirmed as that of a Peruvian member of the ship's crew.