Boat sinks in The Northwest Passage

[jackdale]

Working from a combination of satellite records and declassified submarine sonar data, NASA scientists have constructed a 60-year record of Arctic sea ice thickness. Right now, Arctic sea ice is the youngest and thinnest its been since we started keeping records. More than 70 percent of Arctic sea ice is now seasonal, which means it grows in the winter and melts in the summer, but doesn't last from year to year. This seasonal ice melts faster and breaks up easier, making it much more susceptible to wind and atmospheric conditions.

https://youtu.be/eFFvJYpg4xk

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

https://youtu.be/eFFvJYpg4xk

And that has to do with the sinking of a sailboat due to more ice than expected in the nwp how?

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by newhaul

And that has to do with the sinking of a sailboat due to more ice than expected in the nwp how?

The sinking of the sailboat had nothing to do with 'more ice than expected in the nwp'.

The sailboat likely sunk primarily because of a combination of the motility of the ice and conditions that we are all, since we weren't there, just guessing at, but are probably a combination of inexperience and some form of impatience.

Not to mention luck...




Aug 20

Note the lack of ice along the shoreline of Prince of Wales island (upper left corner) and the relative lack of ice in the Bellot Strait (center)




Aug 23

Note 3 days later the ice has shifted completely across Peel Sound/Franklin Strait, leaving the west entrance to Bellot Strait relatively
open.



Aug 25

Though slightly concealed by thin clouds, Bellot seems relatively clear



Aug 27

Two days later the wind seems to have abated, and the ice has spread out, drifting back and blocking the west end of Bellot



Aug 28

Next day the west entrance remains blocked, and it appears that ice is entering the strait, I'd guess under the influence of currents.



Aug 29

The fateful day. Unfortunately the view is mostly obscured by thin clouds, but it is evident that the west end of the strait remains blocked , and seems that some of the strait has ice and other parts do not.



Sept 13

Of course hindsight is 20/20, had they waited a couple of weeks they'd probably made it through OK. But that leaves where to go from there. Would those two weeks cost them the ability to make it to the next (possible) overwintering spot? Would the extreme ice pack variability catch them somewhere else?



Thus the "sinking of a sailboat due to more ice than expected" is actually just the opposite. The sinking of the sailboat was because of the quick and unpredictable movement of the weakened, thinned and less prevalent ice. Hence Jack's post is relevant indeed, at least to those who have a grasp of the situation...


There is another thread about the stranding of some Arctic communities, because of ice blocking a barge. The same effect is responsible there; the sea ice in that case blew down from the north, blocking the west entrance to the southern route of the NWP due to it not being part of a contiguous sheet, and thus being more subject to the influence of wind and currents...

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

The sinking of the sailboat had nothing to do with 'more ice than expected in the nwp'.

The sailboat likely sunk primarily because of a combination of the motility of the ice and conditions that we are all, since we weren't there, just guessing at, but are probably a combination of inexperience and some form of impatience.

Not to mention luck...




Aug 20

Note the lack of ice along the shoreline of Prince of Wales island (upper left corner) and the relative lack of ice in the Bellot Strait (center)




Aug 23

Note 3 days later the ice has shifted completely across Peel Sound/Franklin Strait, leaving the west entrance to Bellot Strait relatively
open.



Aug 25

Though slightly concealed by thin clouds, Bellot seems relatively clear



Aug 27

Two days later the wind seems to have abated, and the ice has spread out, drifting back and blocking the west end of Bellot



Aug 28

Next day the west entrance remains blocked, and it appears that ice is entering the strait, I'd guess under the influence of currents.



Aug 29

The fateful day. Unfortunately the view is mostly obscured by thin clouds, but it is evident that the west end of the strait remains blocked , and seems that some of the strait has ice and other parts do not.



Sept 13

Of course hindsight is 20/20, had they waited a couple of weeks they'd probably made it through OK. But that leaves where to go from there. Would those two weeks cost them the ability to make it to the next (possible) overwintering spot? Would the extreme ice pack variability catch them somewhere else?



Thus the "sinking of a sailboat due to more ice than expected" is actually just the opposite. The sinking of the sailboat was because of the quick and unpredictable movement of the weakened, thinned and less prevalent ice. Hence Jack's post is relevant indeed, at least to those who have a grasp of the situation...


There is another thread about the stranding of some Arctic communities, because of ice blocking a barge. The same effect is responsible there; the sea ice in that case blew down from the north, blocking the west entrance to the southern route of the NWP due to it not being part of a contiguous sheet, and thus being more subject to the influence of wind and currents...

you can play all the pictures you want to. However I am referring to the fact report that was issued by the CCG a couple days prior to the sinking .

[jimbunyard]

Just for grins, a satellite picture of the whole area, from October 9.

Note that basically the whole area south of the northern route of the NWP and most of the northern route are mostly still ice free, as of Oct 9. The only main blockages are at the western ends of both the northern and southern routes, and a close inspection of those blockages reveal the fragmented condition of the ice from which those 'blockages' are made.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Just for grins, a satellite picture of the whole area, from October 9.

Note that basically the whole area south of the northern route of the NWP and most of the northern route are mostly still ice free, as of Oct 9. The only main blockages are at the western ends of both the northern and southern routes, and a close inspection of those blockages reveal the fragmented condition of the ice from which those 'blockages' are made.

this was a thread that I started to inform about the loss of a sailboat in the nwp thankfully with no loss of life . Why are you trying to make it into something else.
Go sailing now that there are no storms in the gulf of Mexico.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by newhaul

you can play all the pictures you want to. However I am referring to the fact report that was issued by the CCG a couple days prior to the sinking .

The posting of a one sentence response to someone else does not require the reposting of nearly a page of comments and images. It makes the discussion difficult and tedious to read. Thanks.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

And that has to do with the sinking of a sailboat due to more ice than expected in the nwp how?

Arctic sea ice is becoming more easily wind driven.

This seasonal ice melts faster and breaks up easier, making it much more susceptible to wind and atmospheric conditions.

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/...rculation.html

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

this was a thread that I started to inform about the loss of a sailboat in the nwp thankfully with no loss of life . Why are you trying to make it into something else.
Go sailing now that there are no storms in the gulf of Mexico.

Remember whose web site you you quoted to start the thread.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by newhaul

this was a thread that I started to inform about the loss of a sailboat in the nwp thankfully with no loss of life . Why are you trying to make it into something else.

Don't play the innocent. You are responsible for the links you post. The choice of a link from a blatantly denial-oriented cesspool seems deliberate, when you had a choice of several more credible, non-contentious sources to link to. Why, if not to kick the AGW anthill yet again?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Don't play the innocent. You are responsible for the links you post. The choice of a link from a blatantly denial-oriented cesspool seems deliberate, when you had a choice of several more credible, non-contentious sources to link to. Why, if not to kick the AGW anthill yet again?

LE as I stated already that was just the first reference that came up on my feeds. I personally don't care what the MMGWC think or feel . The fact is there was more ice in the nwp than in recent past years.
Funny you guys are not mentioning the fact that I also posted the actual report from the Canadian ice service and the CCG concerning the fact of more ice than in years past.
I'm not the one trying to demonize a thread on a sailing forum.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

LE as I stated already that was just the first reference that came up on my feeds.

Someone with an modicum of critical thinking skills would have applied the CRAAP test to the blog before posting.

The CRAAP Test - Information Evaluation - LibGuides at Duquesne University

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Someone with an modicum of critical thinking skills would have applied the CRAAP test to the blog before posting.

The CRAAP Test - Information Evaluation - LibGuides at Duquesne University

jack get a new line its really getting old.
But then what do people expect from a MMGWC alderman.

[john61ct]

Sorry what is that? I only find astronumerology?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Sorry what is that? I only find astronumerology?

???????