Another Keel Lost; Another Capsize

[Jim Cate]

f they were foolish enough to dive on a moving wreck in a channel, they'd still be arrested for diving in the channel.

??????

ARRESTED? WTF? How are they supposed to plug the holes and refloat the boat without diving? What law would they be breaking?

And I'm still unsure about the keel... Ping thinks he can see it in the video (we don't have the bandwidth to watch that kinda stuff) and the boat is reportedly floating upright which suggests that the keel is still attached.

Lots of conflicting info floating around...

Jim

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

??????

ARRESTED? WTF? How are they supposed to plug the holes and refloat the boat without diving? What law would they be breaking?

And I'm still unsure about the keel... Ping thinks he can see it in the video (we don't have the bandwidth to watch that kinda stuff) and the boat is reportedly floating upright which suggests that the keel is still attached.

Lots of conflicting info floating around...

Jim

Upon reflection I think that was just a trick of the light.... and it is way too far aft.......

However... unless they have had heavy weather since this shot was taken she looks quite salvageable to me... whether salvaging and rebuilding is an economic proposition is another matter...

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Upon reflection I think that was just a trick of the light.... and it is way too far aft.......

However... unless they have had heavy weather since this shot was taken she looks quite salvageable to me... whether salvaging and rebuilding is an economic proposition is another matter...

Well, THAT ain't floating upright... for sure!!!

Dunno where I got that idea.

Jim

[hellosailor]

" Any B-2 visitor who is found otherwise admissible and is issued a Form I-94, will be admitted for a minimum period of six months ... "

You know, grammar isn't my strong point but I've got this piece of vellum that declares me to be a gentlemen and a scholar, and as I read that quote it says "And we're going to admit you for SIX MONTHS" meaning, you can't leave the country legally until and unless that six months has fully passed. Same thing as being admitted to a lunatic asylum for a 48-hour evaluation, you CAN'T leave until the time is up.

Man, that's a rough visa.

[hellosailor]

Jim-
I didn't read it as "sned a salvage team out" I read what I think was written, i.e. "let's go out and look at the wreck and see what happened". Which is tourists, sport divers, other kinds of lookie loos who yes, will be in trouble for diving in a channel.

I'd have to question whether the USCG would be less than totally pissed off even if a salvage crew went out--unless that crew co-ordinated with the USCG to establish a safety zone AND perhaps close the pass while they were out there. Between the safety issues and the question of what options anyone would have?
USCG might just say "Put a line on it, put a lift strap on it, don't screw around just get it the hell out of our channel, you've got four hours to do it."

You know, clear the obstruction first, worry about whether there really is any point in trying to SALVAGE a fifty year old $5000 boat after it has been sunk anyway. How much more damage can you do to it?

[Cap Erict3]

Most folks wouldn’t need dive gear in 4’ of water.

Helped a fella do a bucket drill on his Columbia 29 after a newbie plumbing fiasco at the slip. Boat was almost at the gunnels when he shut the raw water valve.
A trash pump could work wonders.
Pickling an engine is old hat.

[kimtrang]

My 1962 built boat has external ballast on a semi cut away keel. They're bronze and look ok so haven't worried about them It is obvious somebody in the past has either replaced them or checked them, as some saw work has been done to access them. Judging by the abrasions in the bottom of the lead, it has been hit a few times.

I guess I should get my keel bolts checked. But I won't. Not now anyway. The guy I bought it off sailed it from the US a couple of years ago without incident which is kind of reassuring. Not that it matters to me. I'm old, irresponsible and without family, so I'll just take the crap shoot. I sick of working on this boat and just want to sail it after working on the hard for 12 months.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

"The government" doesn't pay for wreck cleanup these days, States have laws that make the owners liable for the cleanups. Otherwise, it is possible that tax monies would be used.

Ann

The problem is these fools are what is refereed to as "judgement proof". If they have $90 total, you can get any judgement you like but they aren't paying squat, so yes, the taxpayer will cover the cost of removal.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by bill352

Does anyone know why the Coast Guard is insisting they remove the boat? Is it in the navigation channel, or adrift as a hazard to navigation?

I ask because a boat ran aground near me in Florida and there is no interest whatsoever, on federal, state, or local levels, in doing anything about it. If there's a magic number to call, it would be nice to know about it.

In theory, they all are supposed to be removed but those in channels are likely to get the most attention.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I keep asking myself, "Ann, if you were in their shoes, would you rather go bankrupt, and back to work, or try the gofundme? and go back to work anyhow?" Going bankrupt is a process that will affect your credit for the term of your natural life. It would be particularly unattractive under the age of 30.

It seems inevitable, but if they can clear this liability quickly and easily, and get on with their lives--and the donors get to feel good for donating, is there any real harm here?

We tend to think in terms of taking responsibility for ourselves, and our actions as being our solitary responsibility, but in times when the nuclear family is struggling, perhaps turning to the larger family of humankind is a logical and humane thing to do...in both directions.

Ann

Actually, not much point in filing bankruptcy. Based on the story, they have no assets and no intention of being a productive part of society. If they aren't taking out loans or buying insurance or doing anything where their credit history matters...why would they care if they have an unpaid debt. Plus in 7-10yrs most of it slips off the credit report, so no it's not going to effect them for the rest of their life.

They can be sued but there is nothing to get.

Of course, I would look at it a little different. I made a mess, so I should go out get a job and clean up the mess. Yeah, it would be much more fun to walk away or talk someone else into paying my bill with a sob story but that's wrong. Charity is for those who can't take care of themselves. People who abuse charity deserve disrespect as it makes us skeptical when a real charity case comes along.

As far as people calling them out for doing something stupid...better to scare other unprepared individuals rather than trot out the rare example of someone who did everything wrong and got lucky.

[rourkeh]

I see these two geniuses have raised $11,000 on the internet on a GO FUND ME page. What is wrong with this picture. Now thanks to social media you can be a clueless pair of boobs, buy a boat that you can't operate, go out and sink it at the first opportunity and anonymous strangers will send you the money to go and do it again. It doesn't matter HOW they sank the boat, I have owned dozens of boats in my life, and covered 10' of thousands of sea miles and NEVER sunk a single boat. Which is kind of the goal. Why are people willing to reward others who make a practise of being stupid? What does this say about the rest of us?
WOW

[boatman61]

Its all part of a wonderful human perception called Progress..
In the past folks would make their own mistakes..
Today.. with the aid of technology you can pay someone to make them for you..
Monkey see.. Monkey do..

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its all part of a wonderful human perception called Progress..
In the past folks would make their own mistakes..
Today.. with the aid of technology you can pay someone to make them for you..
Monkey see.. Monkey do..

That's funny and quite perceptive...Some people's lives are so boring they feel this need to be part of something...Even if it's paying for a boat to be removed after sinking. We certainly live in interesting times my friend

[BlackHeron]

Glass houses and keelboats. I think a lot of folks here must be perfect and never make or ever made a beginner's mistake in their lives. Heck, they are basically kids. 20-something is the new teenager today. The way we have dumbed-down civilization in Murka, I'm surprised anyone under 40 can take care of themselves at all. Do we blame it on the kids -or the people who created the society & environment over the last 50-60 years which never lets kids grow up, and helicopter-parents and warehouse-style institutionally schools them so poorly that they are still developmentally retarded and acting like adolescents well into their 30's? Perhaps it is even beyond that, that is still to be seen whether the millennial generation as a whole simply has passed-by their formative years without developing those skills necessary to someday even become productive self-sufficient members of society as a whole. If a child is born without arms and legs, he or she is never going to grow them later? No, they have missed that developmental step and once out of the womb those are never going to grow.

I'm not saying these particular kids are that bad, I think they just made some really dumb rookie mistakes and learned the hard way that the sea is not forgiving like their teachers were in school, who handed out the participation trophies to everyone who bothered to show up that day. Can you blame it on them for not knowing what they didn't know? I feel sorry for them, but maybe this is the kick in the pants that they needed . Nobody was hurt or killed. It could be worse. Every day in just about every city someone totals out an automobile which cost much more than this boat did and walks away, even including the money to have it recovered from the environment. Many do it without insurance -or only having liability insurance.

They are out 10-20k after making a series of stupid rookie gaffes that turned around to bite them here. in fact I think they are pretty lucky this happened when and where it did because if that keel was going to fall off that easily with a minor grounding then those bolts were bound to fail, and it was going to fall off eventually -sooner rather than later. It could have been out crossing the stream a couple of months from now and this thread would read a lot differently. Watching the many clone YT sailing channels almost nobody wears a PFD "out there" and I would bet these guys wouldn't have an up-to-date lifeboat aboard. Even wearing PFDs what would their chances be in the middle of the stream in who-knows what sea state, and likely in the dark, when the bolts just decided to snap? More rookie mistakes might have had them end up choosing a crossing with some Northerly wind component? Best that this keel fell off where it did.

Then there are the folks getting their noses all out of joint over crowd-funding. It's not like these guys are sitting in a busy intersection in some big city with a "Please Help, God Bless" sign day after day passing a cup every time the light turns red. Jeesh, this forum is harsh. Kids are going to be kids. They are young, they seem healthy and hopefully they have parents, family, friends and some resources that will help them get on their feet. If not they are young and they have already raised enough cash from thousands of humans who feel bad enough about their situation to chip in a couple of bucks.

These could have been almost anyone's kids. I'm glad I never had any...

[double u]

BlackHeron, go back to my post 92! we too started from zero at the same age, could have had the same result - BUT so can anybody! the difference lies in the attitude & the preparation, not the risk one takes.