Another Keel Lost; Another Capsize

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Newhaul ..
But seriously this raises an interesting issue regarding keel bolts and their age? Just what is the lifespan of keel bolts and how can you easily tell their condition? As a surveyor I look for obvious signs like cracking in the keel hull join and the condition of the nuts and washers on the inside. But as for what is buried inside structural members it is anyone's guess. I can only imagine there will be more keel failures as our sailing fleet ages.
Cheers

It is something you cannot see without taking the keel out. If a boat has more than 20 years a serious inception should be made even if no cracks appear on the hull, specially if the boat is used offshore.

I recently saw the keel bolts on a Folkboat that had lost the keel and capsized.

Previous to losing the keel there was no indication that anything was wrong. The visible part of the boats looked good without corrosion signs and the keel did not show any cracking previously to having lost it.

When the bolts were taken out of the hull they looked new on top but completely corroded on the bottom, finishing on a sharp point, like and ice pick. In what regards stainless steel the bolt can look good but still be fragile due to stress.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It’s something of a catch 22. I had the 30 yr old chainplates cut out of my IP, cause the expected life is 15 yrs, to find them in very good condition. However the amount of work required to remove them, made reinstalling them foolish.
If I had real old keel bolts, they are being replaced, cause you really cannot tell the condition of material from just a visual inspection, there are forms of corrosion and aging that just are not detectable visually, or from dye penetrant either.

They are stainless steel, they can look good and due to have been subjected to countless efforts have only apart of their original strength due to metal fatigue. That's why chainplates should be changed aftear a certain age, not because they don't look as new.

[seaman-lew]

but catamarans' are not boats, they are barges

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah they had a good rep, those 28s, but it is an old boat so the bolts should have been replaced.
But I am curious about the "lost everything" .. and the "no savings, no job..." what were they panning to live off of?

that $90 they had left

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah they had a good rep, those 28s, but it is an old boat so the bolts should have been replaced.
But I am curious about the "lost everything" .. and the "no savings, no job..." what were they panning to live off of?

well you know they learned on YouTube how to fish offshore
The sea shall provide it works for me ( well that and my VA disability)

[Chalifour]

There is a saying in the Bush Pilot World that goes about like this: “When a pilot crashes his airplane, we all share a reasponsability as his decision was inspired by the advises he received from all of us”.
So when such an event occurs, we should be filled with Compassion rather then hate, resentment and contempt for this couple. Feelings that unfortunately are growing lately among our American neighbors.

[boeing1]

one hour for sea tow to get to them why did they not call report their problem on VHF 16, or call 911 on there cell, could of been much worse out come. think everyone with no boating experience should take at least a basic boating course

[S/V Alchemy]

There's a whole school of thought that says "anchor out or heave to instead of trying to navigate unfamiliar, complex approaches at night with potential dangers outside of the channel". Keyword there is "school". So, mixed feelings on this. They were probably motoring and maybe quickly to hit what was likely a reef or a stone shelf hard enough to tear off the keel bolts, although in another sense they may not have had the experience or knowledge to check the condition of the keel bolts or even to know what they were and what they did. A 1969 boat might have had issues in that regard to start with. If so, sinking inshore in nine feet of water might have saved them from death. A keel falling off Cheeki Rafiki-style certainly was.

[dochip]

Much more compassion is needed than the comments I'm seeing here, all of which are based on a short-on-facts news story that is not published in a marine publication. Don't start judging without real facts. Honor their dreams. I've written to the newspaper to try to see how to contact them to offer assistance. And you who judge so quickly, are as quick to help those in need?

[KP44]

Originally Posted by toddster8

I seem to recall reading that Robin Graham set off on his circumnavigation with $70. (About $550 in today's dollars.)

Yes. And John Neal says he set out from Friday Harbor with 5.00$US in his pocket.
But a capable boat is an asset more valuable than many realize.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by dochip

Much more compassion is needed than the comments I'm seeing here, all of which are based on a short-on-facts news story that is not published in a marine publication. Don't start judging without real facts. Honor their dreams. I've written to the newspaper to try to see how to contact them to offer assistance. And you who judge so quickly, are as quick to help those in need?

You're right; armchair quarterbacking (or skippering) can be insensitive. But, the story, such as it is, is in the news, and this is a public forum. Given the little info we have, it's still apparent that there were some deficiencies in their planning (no insurance?) their skills, even how to call for help. While admiring their determination, it's hard to praise the attempt, if only to encourage others to be better prepared.

Maybe you and your tug can help them remove the wreck. Can you lend them some yard space?

They're young, they can work, and they have decades stretching out in front of them in which to chase the dream.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by dochip

Much more compassion is needed than the comments I'm seeing here, all of which are based on a short-on-facts news story that is not published in a marine publication. Don't start judging without real facts. Honor their dreams. I've written to the newspaper to try to see how to contact them to offer assistance. And you who judge so quickly, are as quick to help those in need?

You've heard the phrase "This is Africa", well "this is Cruisersforum" it's full of these type of views. In fact many in the sailing community can often be like this too.

Just the other day, I went over to German Prout owner to ask about the lifting points of that model boat. I'd obviously interrupted his xHamster session, as he stood up huffing and puffing, and snapped "No" I don't know.

What a ****ing liar, I saw him with his boat on the hard just a couple of months earlier.

Another German I helped tie off his lines as he docked for fuel. The staff were no where to be found. Another boat came, and ask if he would move further down the pier a little, and I'd again tie off his lines. He refused, leaving the other boat to just drift about while he waited for the fuel staff.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by atoll

they seem like nice people perhaps someone can donate them another boat.

No. This just encourages more of the same.

There is a piece called Ultra Budget on our blog, applies here.

An earlier poster is correct, this becomes a burden for Madeira Beach. I’m all for folks living their dreams but when I read things like folks wanting to sail a 23’ whatever across the Pacific with no money and no experience I just can’t help but cringe.

Cruising is not all sunset and margaritas. The reasons they feel so good is because the bad is so bad. We worked a solid decade 24/7 to craft the life to be able to leave for a decade. No luck, thousands of hard hours and a desire not to be a burden on others.

These folks will organize some crowd sourcing and raise 100k plus, have a 40’ center cockpit donated and take off again in 10 months.

We’ll see.

[peter57]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

It really makes me grateful that I don't have any keelbolts or keel for that matter.

Some sailing Raft's have mini keels.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Waaay too much speculation here. In reality all we know is what the new report says and I long ago realized these things are seldom accurate.

100% correct on both points. Lots of speculation (and some condemnation) going on AND based on news reports. My experience, especially when involving anything even slightly technical or requiring some special skill or knowledge like sailing, news reports are terrible.

I've seen news reports (on TV and in the papers) a number of times about incidents that I knew of personally and every single one was either wrong in some significant detail or intentionally misconstrued the story to make it more sensational.