4 or 5 Knots to know?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by StuM

No, it's not - but structurally, they are exactly the same. The sheet bend has the same structure as a bowline with the loop cut open.

True, the hitch itself is the same structurally.

Though many students stuggle a bit with a sheet bend...and a teaching trick Ive learned is to have them tie an square knot then unlay one leg of it in the smaller line and tuck it back under where it should go to form a sheet bend (hard to describe in words). After they visualize it that way a few times then they can just tie a sheet bend.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

True, the hitch itself is the same structurally.

Though many students stuggle a bit with a sheet bend...and a teaching trick Ive learned is to have them tie an square knot then unlay one leg of it in the smaller line and tuck it back under where it should go to form a sheet bend (hard to describe in words). After they visualize it that way a few times then they can just tie a sheet bend.

A teaching trick I've learned is tell them to forget about the sheet bend and use the Zeppelin Bend instead.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by StuM

A teaching trick I've learned is tell them to forget about the sheet bend and use the Zeppelin Bend instead. [emoji3]

In my case its still part of the ASA curriculum so I cant do that. 😆

[StuM]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

In my case its still part of the ASA curriculum so I cant do that. 😆

Oh, I still teach it - because they should know what it is. Then I tell them to forget about using it.

Here's a page from the handout I use

[Snore]

Being able to both tie a rolling hitch and have a routing from both jib sheets to a second winch should be in everyone's skill set

WHEN "someone" on the boat overwraps a winch tieing a rolling hitch onto the jib sheet and routing it to another winch will take the load off the sheet without turning up.

When you must secure fenders to lifelines to keep the boat off likings it is a handy knot since you can slide it along the lifeline.

[KimSails]

Sorry to digress, but...No full turn on the cleat hitch?

I tie a cleat by hooking each horn of the cleat exactly twice, no more, no less. The first horn must be the one furthest from the load. The first two hooks are around the base. This results in the "full turn" being between 180 and 360 degrees around the base, depending upon the direction of the load.

The animated knots link posted above, with the load parallel to the horn, is how I would tie it and that would be the most "full turn" that I would ever do. Most real-world situations would be something less than this because the cleat should installed at an angle to the typical load.

For those of you advocating no full turn, I am curious if this is what you mean, or if you only hook the furthest horn and then do the first cross over (three hooks on the cleat in total)?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

I have a few friends who come sailing with me but are not really 'sailors'. At this point they can take the helm, pull on lines etc, and relieve me when I need to do something for a bit.

I would like to teach them some knots. I think 4 or 5 at most. I am trying to figure out which ones are essential besides really simple ones that I think they know (square knot and figure 8 stopper). Please give your comments...I can only come up with 2 that have to be known.

1. Bowline. Essential (general purpose, attach a jib sheet to jib, etc.)
2. Clove hitch (tie the fender to the lifeline and not lose the fender overboard)

Need a knot that joins 2 pieces of line very well. Not sure what else..

If nothing else teach them a bowline so you don't end up needing to cut knots out.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by StuM

Forget about the sheet bend, clove hitch and a lot of the other traditional knots used in hemp/manila lines. They slip under cyclic loads with modern rope materials.

Here's the list I teach on Learn To Sail and Search & Rescue Crew courses.

The 5 essentials:
1. Bowline.
2. Zeppelin Bend
3. Figure 8
4. Round Turn & 2 Half Hitches
5. Cleat Hitch (no "full turn". It can jam a mooring line under load)

Follow up with desirables once the above are well practiced:

6. Reef knot (with cautions about the limited situations where it is safe/useful)
7. Alpine Butterfly
8. Grapple Hitch
9. Lighterman's/Tugboat hitch.
10. Rolling Hitch.

An Alpine Butterfly? I love that knot but have no idea what use it would have on a boat...?

These the only six we've used on our boat to date (in order of usage):
Everyday knots:

1 clove hitch
2 round turn and two half hitches
3 bowline
4 rolling hitch

Once in a while knots:

5 reef knot
6 figure eight
7 oysterman's stopperknot

[rosatte]

Rolling hitch one of the best knots to tie a rope snubber on a chain

[Time2Go]

Originally Posted by skipmac

#1, how to correctly attach a line to a cleat. Seems simple but I would estimate half the cleats I see in marinas are done incorrectly.

Even though i've been sailing for years and years
I had no formal certifications, so two years ago
I spent a few weeks at a RYA school
tested to Coastal Skipper
A big item was how to cleat a line.
Seems i've been doing it wrong for years
The RYA method is OXO
so you don't need fingers to undo
Therefore
What do you consider the correct method
This is gonna be fun
Cheers
Neil

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by KimSails

Sorry to digress, but...No full turn on the cleat hitch?

I tie a cleat by hooking each horn of the cleat exactly twice, no more, no less. The first horn must be the one furthest from the load. The first two hooks are around the base. This results in the "full turn" being between 180 and 360 degrees around the base, depending upon the direction of the load.

The animated knots link posted above, with the load parallel to the horn, is how I would tie it and that would be the most "full turn" that I would ever do. Most real-world situations would be something less than this because the cleat should installed at an angle to the typical load.

For those of you advocating no full turn, I am curious if this is what you mean, or if you only hook the furthest horn and then do the first cross over (three hooks on the cleat in total)?

If I understand your question, never all the way around the base of the cleat. Line from the load, under the horn farthest from the load, down the base and under the second horn, then cross over the top. Do not go down the base and under the first horn a second time. This will jam.

[Scorpius]

Around here (BC) MOST docks have rails, not cleats. A round turn and two half hitches is the most useful single knot anyone should learn. Stay away from reef knots and clove hitches. They don't hold worth a damn in synthetic rope.

[Cadence]

From the OP, I thought it was suggesting not to loop the last horn but place a loop inside the loop so pulling the biter end frees you?

[KimSails]

Originally Posted by skipmac

If I understand your question, never all the way around the base of the cleat. Line from the load, under the horn farthest from the load, down the base and under the second horn, then cross over the top. Do not go down the base and under the first horn a second time. This will jam.

Exactly. Thanks!

[type_57]

Clockwise on winches, without using fingers!
and no overriding turns

and regarding alpine butterfly -- good for using as a loop for climbing back into the boat in an emergency when you are in the water unexpectedly.