Old Geezer looking for Advice...

[JPA Cate]

As most of you men who have "keeper" women--women you're not going to toss back 'cause they're too--something negative--know, keeper women want consideration, support, and no condescending. "Keeper" women are like the pioneer women in America, Canada, and Australia (forgive me if i've left somebody out here) who could shoot, hunt, raise a pack of kids, half or more of whom died, and still garden, caretake the homestead, and deal with hubby. Multitaskers. We enjoy various things, but being manipulated by boy people who lack the courage to face us with honest propositions sometimes is found annoying.

Of course she's holding back. We don't know if the OP has transient enthusiasms every other day or what? He probably hasn't yet asked what she really thinks of the idea. How he presents it to her may be a deal breaker.

He has been welcomed here. And she will be, should she choose to join us, but right now, she doesn't know us at all! What's to be enthused about?

I do not know your good lady, but from me, if she should choose to join the cruising community, if she has any questions, whether about sailing itself, usually the easiest part, or in related areas, please tell her I wrote to send me a PM with her concerns, and I will be a pen pal for her for a while...and I bet a few of the other women will, as well.

Mostly, at present, I sort of hang out on CF, I contribute where I will, but I have not joined the Mermaids. And I think it depends a whole lot on how the OP's keeper woman feels as to where she will be most comfortable on CF.

And she has to be online for this, or the story will have a different ending.

Ann

[mrohr]

Yes …get in shape…many many ways to do it…but it helps if you have had an active life and are not too degraded and deflated.Once cruising your conditioning will improve significantly as long as you do not hurt yourself by exceeding your limits. A 10 day cruise on my basic boat and I drop 10 -15 years from my age , also replace a few pounds of fat with muscle. Sleep well at night too.

[SURV69]

no bareboat ... no taking a chance ...

just like camping, make the first venture short & sweet ... reduce the chance of "problems", that will turn her off even more to the idea.

I would suggest a captained charter for a day ... no overnight unless it's at dock or if you know most certainly that she's not subject to sea-sickness. A nice sunset is always nice.

If her first venture goes well, go from there.

If it's less than perfect, blame it on the captain.

By all means don't leave the first trip to chance ... as much as possible.

After she knows how nice it can be, she might show a little more interest.

[bhamham]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Of course she's holding back. We don't know if the OP has transient enthusiasms every other day or what? He probably hasn't yet asked what she really thinks of the idea. How he presents it to her may be a deal breaker.

He has been welcomed here. And she will be, should she choose to join us, but right now, she doesn't know us at all! What's to be enthused about?

I do not know your good lady, but from me, if she should choose to join the cruising community, if she has any questions, whether about sailing itself, usually the easiest part, or in related areas, please tell her I wrote to send me a PM with her concerns, and I will be a pen pal for her for a while...and I bet a few of the other women will, as well.

Mostly, at present, I sort of hang out on CF, I contribute where I will, but I have not joined the Mermaids. And I think it depends a whole lot on how the OP's keeper woman feels as to where she will be most comfortable on CF.

And she has to be online for this, or the story will have a different ending.

Ann

Many thanks for your post Ann. Point well taken. Transient enthusiasms do happen to me, a lot. It's my nature, but not Marie's. She's planted firmly with her feet on the ground and provides the stabilizing force that balances our relationship. It took years to recognize that force and one I thoroughly respect now.

I have asked her what she thinks of the idea of cruising in a boat - a few times; but, she can't go there - it's too remote now plus she lives for the here & now. I know too that if she doesn't want any part of it she would be happy for me to do it on my own, but that wouldn't be much fun.

It was a transient enthusiasm (love that term) that moved me to my first post here. Probably very premature but now glad I did. Basically, I know how to sail a boat. Grew up on a Lazer and had my Cal but don't know how to navigate out of sight of land, sail in rough, foggy seas, anchoring, docking a largish boat, etc - things I think we can learn.

I'll pass along your invitation for her to contact you - thanks for that.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by SURV69

no bareboat ... no taking a chance ...

just like camping, make the first venture short & sweet ... reduce the chance of "problems", that will turn her off even more to the idea.

I would suggest a captained charter for a day ... no overnight unless it's at dock or if you know most certainly that she's not subject to sea-sickness. A nice sunset is always nice.

If her first venture goes well, go from there.

If it's less than perfect, blame it on the captain.

By all means don't leave the first trip to chance ... as much as possible.

After she knows how nice it can be, she might show a little more interest.

This sounds wise to me.

Also, I have sailed Lake Travis and currently live in Texas. I would pick another location for that charter and schooling if possible. Given the need to get the partner enthused about the potential for fun on a boat, I think a more fun and exotic location like the BVI would be better and give great experience in a place you are likely to want to cruise too. Summer in Texas can be very light winds and high heat...not so much fun to be sitting on a becalmed sailboat and not so much real learning about essential things like REEFING and other things where more wind will help. Gaining some real experience with picking up a mooring and anchoring would be very valuable experience gained with a crewed charter.

I also think the bareboat is not the way to go. Have a charter where the crew shows you and her the ropes.

Smooth sailing!

[atoll]

Originally Posted by AshleyandEmma

Hi, just a short note we are doing our offshore Yachtmaster with miramar sailing in Antigua. They provide it in modular stages through the 4 months however you can drop in and pick the parts you want/need out of the itinerary.
Brian and Pippa have been really helpful and can source your accommodation.

Good luck and take care,

Ashley & Emma

great to hear feedback about one of my students!

brian sailed onboard Salamandra from thailand to egypt when we were running the round the world adventure sailing school for about 3 months before meeting pippa in antigua.

[bhamham]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

This sounds wise to me.

Also, I have sailed Lake Travis and currently live in Texas. I would pick another location for that charter and schooling if possible. Given the need to get the partner enthused about the potential for fun on a boat, I think a more fun and exotic location like the BVI would be better and give great experience in a place you are likely to want to cruise too...

I also think the bareboat is not the way to go. Have a charter where the crew shows you and her the ropes.

Smooth sailing!

Thanks Steady Hand. I had my Cal at Marshall Ford marina on Lake Travis when 'sometime islands' were not 'all the time' as now. As someone earlier said lake sailing can be very demanding and you can develop very skilled seamanship skills from lake sailing. Not sure exactly what kind of cruising we intend to do, but leaning toward coastal cruising. So, to that end would like a more practical training experience.

The charter experience sounds very wise.

[wswhiting]

Hi,

I'm the exact same age and in the same spot as you (including the wife's attitude!). I signed up for sailing lessons next week. Go for it!

[Canibul]

we used Fair Winds Sailing School, took four ASA courses on board a Leopard 42 in the USVI and BVI in one week. We hired the entire boat and the instructor for just the two of us. we had empty cabins on board, but we didn't want the experience of having eight sets of hands to help with every line, and we didn't want to get one eighth of the time hands on, either. We wanted to know for sure what it was like for two of us geezers to sail a 42 ft cat for a week. Since we were the only two students, we had nobody to spell us except each other. So we tacked and did MOB drills and had to learn to heave to to get a lunch break. We each got beaucoup time at the wheel, and snagging mooring balls, and anchoring etc. All day long, no breaks. When we met up with other students at the various restaurants and pubs we all know about, we'd find that they might have done three mooring snags that day, so three of the eight students on board got to practice grabbing a mooring, and five did not. They never did a single hove to maneuver, while we did one every day at lunch. In Christmas winds of 25 knots plus. We circumnavigate Jost van Dyke in 8 ft. seas and 22 knots of wind and it was pretty good training for a couple green horns.

[jtsailjt]

I think you can do this but you've got to get your wife "onboard" too and I have some thoughts on that. First, I'd put her in touch with a woman like Ann T Cate who's got a lot of experience on boats and with the lifestyle and you can count on her to not make it sound too daunting or like you have to already have a lifetime of experience to get good at sailing/cruising. Plenty of cruisers have their feet planted firmly, at least as it applies to having common sense and a reasonable approach to things and maybe if your wife comes to understand that there are lots of cruisers just like her out there, she'll feel a little more comfortable getting involved.

Also, I'd take it one step at a time and don't even talk about crossing oceans yet. To non sailors, that sounds WAY too far fetched to get a warm reception. That can possibly come someday in the future when you've become comfortable coastal cruising. Take some lessons together and when you sail on a boat with just the two of you, try to split the helmsperson time and decisionmaking time right down the middle or err on the side of her being at the helm more, and be sure to involve her in every decision, from choosing/equipping to sailing and navigating. That way she'll be involved and won't feel like a passenger and the boat will be "hers" too. I'm in the process of introducing my wife of only 3 years to cruising so have thought a lot about the subject. You don't ever want to take her out in conditions that scare her and that means that during your first few seasons, you'll still be hanging on your mooring/anchor when lots of others are out sailing. Reef VERY early, better to be slow and get there with your crew/admiral happy than to scare the crap out of her. She won't notice/care that everyone is passing you. Don't EVER sugarcoat anything because she needs to know she can trust trust trust you to communicate the situation as accurately as possible. Be upfront about all the work it takes to maintain and sail a boat but it's something you'll do together so you'll enjoy it together and you'll learn together. Even when I'm working on plumbing or wiring or bottompainting, I have my wife involved so she understands what I'm doing and she helps me troubleshoot problems and understands/concurs with the resolution. Even for someone like her who has never done any plumbing or wiring, it increases her comfort level to be exposed to and understand how all the systems work and a couple of times she's already noticed things I was overlooking, which helped save time in correctly diagnosing a problem we had. We've only had the boat a short time but already she knows generally where all the thru hulls are and which bilge pump hose goes where and which breaker turns what on, etc. things she had no idea she'd be having to learn. Luckily for me, she's got a good attitude and seems to enjoy learning all that stuff and even getting her hands dirty. I want her to start becoming our primary helmsperson, especially for motoring to mooring or docking, but recently when we've been out it's been tough conditions with strong winds and gusts and I don't want to frustrate her by throwing her into too tough conditions. But the next relatively calm day we have, she'll be driving the boat to our mooring with me by her side saying as little as I possibly can, then with me on the foredeck. Getting on the mooring in 20 knot winds this past weekend she did a great job of communicating by using hand signals to me back at the helm and being aggressive with the boat hook to grab the wrapped and tangled pennant (no pickup buoy) and quickly get it securely on a cleat just as I had prebriefed her to do and I was sure to let her know what a great job she did, not to be patronizing, but because I meant it! That's a task that takes teamwork and if either the helmsperson OR the foredeck person doesn't do their job, it can take a very long time to get securely moored and I didn't want her thinking that just anybody could do what we had just successfully done together. Just this past weekend my wife told me she really appreciates my patience with her on the boat and the fact that I never answer her (many)questions in a way that indicates that she's an idiot for not knowing that already. That's important because it keeps her unafraid to ask more questions and keeps her learning. You'll both find that cruising is a great lifestyle for couples because you are forced to do so much together and you can limit outsiders very easily so you can share "alone time" with no TV or anyone else disturbing you. But the cruising community is very social too so there are plenty of opportunities to meet others and visit and make new and interesting friends. Your wife will see that as she gradually becomes involved and starts meeting people.

If you do get to the point of shopping for a cruising sailboat, that Hans Christian you mentioned wouldn't be a bad choice. You want something that feels stable and secure and comfortable and has an interior that she can make feel like home. 41' isn't too big. I wouldn't worry too much about yours or her physical fitness because you both seem more than adequately fit. Use your head and you won't need to use any great strength or anything beyond normal agility. You're not trying to become an America's Cup grinder! I'd stay away from buying one of the lighter boats typically used in Caribbean charter fleets because they bob around uncomfortably and just don't "seem" as secure feeling even though they are perfectly safe. She needs to be safe AND feel safe so she can get progressively more comfortable. Things like roller furling mains do add complication but they also allow reefing from the security of the cockpit while underway and that is less stressful for you and her. A bow thruster will make maneuvering in close quarters MUCH easier and that seems especially nice for older couples in a heavy, tough to maneuver cruiser. Yes, all this cost$ money but if cruising becomes your home/lifestyle it won't seem so bad. Also, you can save a fair amount by being a do it yourselfer whenever possible and it's a great way to learn your boat and what makes it "tick" and that will give you both more confidence while aboard.

One "trick" I used on my wife to get her interested is I read sailing stories to her. My wife loves it when I read her a chapter or two of anything to her at bedtime. I maintain that it's because my boring voice puts her to sleep but she insists that's not it. So, I started reading sailing stories and books to her and showing her pictures of different kinds of sailboats and talking about their characteristics with her during our bedtime reading sessions. It wasn't much of a step from there to talking about what kind of boat would be best for us and what we'd want to do with it, to shopping for a boat together to owning one together. Read and discuss everything about sailing together (and there's a LOT to learn) and it'll seem more fun and less like drudgery.

You seem like you'd fit right in as a cruiser and enjoy it a lot. I hope my comments above help at least a little bit with getting your wife to embrace the idea too. Good luck!

[JPA Cate]

Nice post, jsailjt:

It made me think of Arthur Ransome's "Swallows & Amazons". If the OP's wife were to read some of that series, and see how sailing can interact with people, that might also be a "trick".

It's a big ask to ask a life long landlubber to become a sailor if she is disinterested. Therefore, making it fun (it's intrinsically interesting) changes the interest factor. Sounds like jsailjt has done a good job of that.

Ann

[bhamham]

All the best wswhiting with the lessons and your pursuit.

Cannibul, will definitely check into Fair Winds. What a way to learn and experience sailing in a very realistic way. Thanks for that.

Many thanks, jtsailjt, for your very thoughtful reply. Some excellent advice to involve Marie in all this. I love those traditional designs like the HC and would definitely want something safe and very stable. We're slow cruisers, with our campervan the longest journey for a day never seems to be more than 3-4 hours, and often staying a week to explore the area. My point is that a fast, light boat, is probably not for us. We would like a comfortable cabin too.

Thanks again Ann, will look into 'Swallows & Amazons'