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Old 10-12-2019, 07:38   #16
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Lots of so-called "blue water" boats with shallow drafts. So the answer to your question is "no."

The more important question is, how does this boat perform given its hull design?

I think she looks like a real beauty. From your image she looks like a well maintained craft. But I too would question the relatively shallow draft, and how she will perform under full sail.
Great, thank you.
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Old 10-12-2019, 07:43   #17
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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Thank you.

What are your cruising plans - where/when/how long/how many people, etc?

It is a lovely looking boat - one you will enjoy rowing out to in an anchorage.

It is a very useful size (not too big nor too small) and would be very warm and cozy in a cool climate.
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Old 10-12-2019, 07:48   #18
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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Nice looking boat! The main mast step looks like it has a pivot pin fitted!
Might that be because the boat is Dutch so lowering the mast is needed to get under the bridges? Wonder if it will get under the low one in Bermuda?

Looks like it has a draft of 1.4m with the keel down.

That is a lot of boat for the Euro 9500 asking price, certainly worth a quick flight over, good luck and let us know how you get on. That is really different from the normal plastic variety

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Old 10-12-2019, 07:52   #19
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

There are things about the pictured boat that would have me avoid it as a "bluewater" boat, but the centerboard is not one of them.

Just to be sure we understand our terms, when I say "bluewater boat" I mean a boat that is crossing oceans on passages of more than a week in duration, out past where weather forecasts can be relied upon, and you have to be prepared to take ANYTHING the ocean can send you.

Those nice big pilot house windows are VERY vulnerable. Not so much to waves hitting the boat, but to impact when the boat falls off a steep wave. It is almost always the leeward windows that fail...

If you have never been on a boat that fell off a wave to land on its side 10 feet down you might not understand the forces involved.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:12   #20
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
The first yacht to sail around the world Spray had a 4 foot draft, which by today’s standards would be considered fairly shallow. I prefer shallow draft for the area we cruise.
Nice looking rig, are they the original spars? A lot of older UK yachts I have surveyed have had that gold coating on the aluminium.
To save yourself a lot of maintenance, canvas covers over the whole yacht will repay you there cost many times over.
Is that stem head fitting good enough for anchoring?
Cheers
“Where is GordMay?”
Cheers, I'll keep that in mind about the canvas. not sure if they are the original spars or if the stem head fitting is good enough, I'll be sure to check that.
A thought that crossed my mind would be to deepen the keel by 12 inches (just to lessen pitching and rolling) or so by laminating and bolting through, is this even possible? would it help or be worth the trouble? How much could I add on? I have been in the building trade all my life and would carry out the work myself, pretty confident I could do a good job but Im not sure of the forces involved?. It's a job i'd love to take on
"Gordmay"? cheers.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:16   #21
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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I concur the answer is No!

Nice looking boat! The main mast step looks like it has a pivot pin fitted!
Thank you, it does look like a pivot pin, i didn't notice that before.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:28   #22
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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A centre board/dagger board will help the vessel go to weather better but it doesn’t necessarily do anything for stability. Other opinions focus on windward ability which is important only to those who sail to weather. Many cruisers (including me) try to keep windward sailing to an absolute minimum. Thus importance diminishes.

More important to me is sea-kindliness. Unless the centre/dagger board is significantly heavy and provides righting effort when deployed, boats like this have a tendency to be quite tender (heel/roll easier).

On the positive side, dagger board up means access to anchorages where longer keels don’t get to go. Places like the Caribbean and Florida Keys (heresay for me, never been to either) apparently shallow water can be restrictive.

If cruising to you is what is commonly referred to as “gunkholing”, it looks like nice choice. Personally I wouldn’t consider this boat for a passage-maker. YMMV. Nice looking boat though.
“gunkholing”, haha i had to google that and it describes my intention fairly closely I intend to do some SUP (stand up and paddle) and tender sailing, I have been drooling over a nesting sailing tender...
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:29   #23
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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Pete Goss' point was that centreboards are positively an advantage downwind as you can get rid of most of the keel, for safety and speed. So it's not just about upwind ability. And sure, they roll a lot but you can anchor in much more protected shallower water most of the time.

I'd definitely be up for a shoal-draft centreboard (or lift-keel) boat next time I'm looking...
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:30   #24
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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Them's fighting words! My older design, medium dispacement pilothouse's speed is just fine. Bob Perry did a great job on the Tayana 37 hull. Not saying there aren't dogs out there but let's not disparage the best sailboat layout to stay warm when it is raining and cold, or to cool off in the air conditioning in the heat :-D
Cheers.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:35   #25
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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“gunkholing”, haha i had to google that and it describes my intention fairly closely
How far are you thinking of going? Since you live in NW Europe that lifting keel could be a real asset to enable you to use drying harbours and creeks which many with a fin will fear to tread. After all I bet that yacht was built for the shallow dutch waters and there are plenty of others in the UK, France and CIs etc.

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Old 10-12-2019, 08:39   #26
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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What are your cruising plans - where/when/how long/how many people, etc?

It is a lovely looking boat - one you will enjoy rowing out to in an anchorage.

It is a very useful size (not too big nor too small) and would be very warm and cosy in a cool climate.
My intentions are full time livaboard single handed as you can probably tell I am kinda new but I have crazy on my side , will have a competent crew course under my belt before I leave, maybe.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:43   #27
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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Might that be because the boat is Dutch so lowering the mast is needed to get under the bridges? Wonder if it will get under the low one in Bermuda?

Looks like it has a draft of 1.4m with the keel down.

That is a lot of boat for the Euro 9500 asking price, certainly worth a quick flight over, good luck and let us know how you get on. That is really different from the normal plastic variety

Pete
Yes I really like it but it's not as clean as it looks, the term used was 'maintenance deferred' Im sure that dutch for 3 months of sanding and varnishing and much more all good to me tho, I really like it and it will take a lot for me to so no if it's not snatched up in the men time.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:47   #28
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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Originally Posted by billknny View Post
There are things about the pictured boat that would have me avoid it as a "bluewater" boat, but the centerboard is not one of them.

Just to be sure we understand our terms, when I say "bluewater boat" I mean a boat that is crossing oceans on passages of more than a week in duration, out past where weather forecasts can be relied upon, and you have to be prepared to take ANYTHING the ocean can send you.

Those nice big pilot house windows are VERY vulnerable. Not so much to waves hitting the boat, but to impact when the boat falls off a steep wave. It is almost always the leeward windows that fail...

If you have never been on a boat that fell off a wave to land on its side 10 feet down you might not understand the forces involved.
That will be a new experience for me as I intend to go far and wide, I was thinking about some form of bracing.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:45   #29
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

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How far are you thinking of going? Since you live in NW Europe that lifting keel could be a real asset to enable you to use drying harbours and creeks which many with a fin will fear to tread. After all I bet that yacht was built for the shallow dutch waters and there are plenty of others in the UK, France and CIs etc.

Pete
I you may be right there, I will be touring the med but I really want to sail in the fjords in Norway that's the one that really excites me
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:51   #30
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Re: Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

Nice looking boat, but if you are new to boat repair, DO NOT buy a wooden boat.
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