Good News: Great Barrier Reef Recovering Nicely!

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by Exile

I would expect this level of discourse from several others who have already engaged in the usual low-level name-calling and labeling, but not from you.

Another Red Herring...

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SailOar

Another Red Herring...

Like I said . . .

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by SailOar

Almost 60 coral species around Lizard Island are 'missing' – and a Great Barrier Reef extinction crisis could be next

• Our research examined 44 years of coral distribution records around Lizard Island, at the northern end of the Great Barrier Reef
• The research was on "hermatypic" corals, which deposit calcium carbonate and form the hard framework of the reef
• We found 16% of coral species have not been seen for many years and are at risk of either local extinction, or disappearing from parts of their local range
• In most locations however, data on the distribution and abundance of all coral species in a community is lacking
• Local range reductions are often precursors to local species extinctions. And local species extinctions are often precursors to regional, and ultimately global, extinction events.

If in fact true, you might want to Google "Lizard Island" to enlighten yourself as to possibilities for the missing 60 species "around" the island. I suspect the fact that it's both a popular tourist spot and cruising anchorage has just a little bit to do with it.

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

If in fact true, you might want to Google "Lizard Island" to enlighten yourself as to possibilities for the missing 60 species "around" the island. I suspect the fact that it's both a popular tourist spot and cruising anchorage has just a little bit to do with it.

Lizard Island - Wikipedia

Lizard Island is an island on the Great Barrier Reef in Queensland (Australia), 1624 km northwest of Brisbane and part of the Lizard Island Group that also includes Palfrey Island. It is part of the Lizard Island National Park.

Lizard Island Research Station
Situated on Lizard Island's most westerly point, the research station is operated by the Australian Museum, providing research and education facilities for those interested in studying coral reefs. As a result of research conducted at the station, about 1,000 scientific publications have been produced by Australian and international researchers since the station was set up in 1973.[7]

Lizard Island Resort
On the island's north western side is an ultra luxury resort owned by Hong Kong listed property company Sea Holdings and operated by Voyages Hotels & Resorts until November 2009, the resort is now operated by Delaware North.[8] The 40 villa resort focuses on providing seclusion and watersport activities that take advantage of the island's location on the Great Barrier Reef, including diving trips to the nearby Cod Hole.[9]

In the U.S. national parks generally do receive a lot of tourists, but what can be done in a national park is highly regulated to protect the natural environment. Are Australian national parks more laxly regulated than U.S. national parks?

[jimbunyard]

You people are doing just like the scientists you are discussing. Focus on one small part, ignoring the bigger picture.

While you lot all get lost in argument about scientists and global warming, you seem to conveniently put aside my comments on the rape of The Reef by asian fishermen.


The connection between Crown of Thorns and reef devastation was made in the late sixties. Tours were run for snorklers to go out on the reef with spears to collect CoT, way back then.

The Reef was fairly happy, until large scale commercial exploitation of reef resources started happening by the asians. If the asians ate CoT starfish, and not clams and sea urchins, the reef would be in a fantastic condition.

The coral loss started in the north, and moved south, along with the Cot. When the water got too cool for the Cot, that's where they stopped. But their food source was exhausted, so they couldn't move back north. As the northern reef regenerated, so does the CoT, and whole cycle starts again.

Sink all the asian fishing boats on sight!!!!!

Then there's El Nino/LaNina.

It's not just the Barrier Reef that's affected, it's the whole South Pacific tropical region.

The effects on the reef lag the cycles of warm and hot in the south Pacific.

How about the movements of the box jellyfish, and Irukandji? Never found south of Mackay. Now as far south as Moreton Bay. And also now found in the Florida Keys, due to ship ballast being pumped in Miami and Panama.

Cruisers beware! Ask locals before swimming in Aus east coast waters north of Brisbane.

Then there's crocs. Now seen in the river at Bundaberg, and once were only a far north problem.


Now, back to useless discussion about opinionated scientists...

Racist much?

Never heard of a boat being a regional entity (and before anyone calls 'foul', being flagged to a specific state or country is a completely different animal). You seem to be referring to seafood piracy, by some individuals you feel are from an area for which you apparently have distaste.

Which is a blatant assumption equating the supposed actions of some with the actions of all. Of course, what makes it racist is that blatant assumption and implication (all 'Asian' fishing boats are pirates), i.e. the textbook definition of racism.


How sad indeed it is that that definition has to be spelled out to ensure it's (hopefully) understood.


Then there's the call for vigilante justice, obviouly illegal, (for sound ethical reasons) (one of which you demonstrate so handily here).

Perhaps we (you?) should all 'sink all powerboats'?, or 'all boats over (or, for the 'elite', under) X feet'? How bout 'eliminate anyone using fossil fuels in any instance'? (now that would solve the problem 'quickly' [a few hundred years])


Quick now, what could possibly be the (heavily documented) common global cause of tropical species (aquatic and terrrestrial, floral and faunal) expanding their ranges polewards in both directions?

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I take a sympathetic view of the populace and tend to the opinion that they can't all be as brilliant as us participants in Cruiser Forum and consequently experts in science 101.

Exactly right. I would never diss anyone for not being a scientist - a lot of bright and sane people are bored to tears and uninterested in science and just don't know that much about it. No problem. The problem is those who don't know what they are talking about deluding themselves (and trying to delude others) that they are scientists and spouting utter rubbish. I am not up to snuff on quantum mechanics, so I keep my trap shut and do not write moronic posts spouting nonsense about how I am sure it can't be true. I really do have the feeling that some of it can't be true - but since I know I am ignorant and unschooled in the topic, I would never say "I am sure it can't be true". For me to do so would be pathetic and useless.

"You are not entitled to your opinions. You are entitled to your informed opinions." Harlan Ellison

That is a huge problem with this and many other topics. Mayor DiBlasio of NYC was spot on when he was bemoaning vaccine hesitancy. "When did everyone get a medical degree?"

CF readers are a sharp bunch - I have seen a lot of people justifiably dismissed on threads when they spout uninformed opinions about naval architecture or structural engineering or electrical engineering. Deservedly so.

And don't start in with the whole tiresome "the experts aren't always right" shtick. Another example of not being able to think.

The Ridd firing/lawsuit is a ridiculous distraction and a side issue. I won't debate it because it is an intentional ruse to have an argument other than the fundamental one. It is also conspiracy theorizing - that he got fired somehow proves that the 'truth' about AGC is being suppressed. Utter and complete nonsense.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by SailOar

[B][SIZE="3"]
In the U.S. national parks generally do receive a lot of tourists, but what can be done in a national park is highly regulated to protect the natural environment. Are Australian national parks more laxly regulated than U.S. national parks?

Minor fact check - quite a few US National Parks are overwhelmed with tourists. Traffic jams in Yosemite leading to auto bans and shuttle busses, Zion restricting entry and overflowing parking lots, traffic backups in Shenandoah NP.

Not to undermine your overall point, but there are definitely overuse issues in US National Parks as well. The huge difference being that most US Parks have a very small number of entrances where choke points can be applied to traffic. Obviously not the case in a marine park!

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Minor fact check - quite a few US National Parks are overwhelmed with tourists. Traffic jams in Yosemite leading to auto bans and shuttle busses, Zion restricting entry and overflowing parking lots, traffic backups in Shenandoah NP.

It is precisely because of the desire to preserve the natural environment that autos are often restricted in national parks, and tourists must use shuttle buses.

Not to undermine your overall point, but there are definitely overuse issues in US National Parks as well. The huge difference being that most US Parks have a very small number of entrances where choke points can be applied to traffic. Obviously not the case in a marine park!

We were assured by ReefMagnet that "the GBR is one of, if not the most, rigidly managed commercial and recreational fisheries in the world. Ditto for tourism and both commercial and recreational boating."

If that is true, then it is certainly true that Lizard Island National Park within the GBR must be even more "rigidly managed." And if Lizard Island National Park within the GBR is even more rigidly managed, then Lizard Island itself, with its international coral reef research facilities, must surely be extremely rigidly managed.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Maybe, they were just politely ignoring the ramblings of a loveable idiot.

Nah, the post is pure nonsense dreamed up to illustrate a point.

But there are a great number of people in the world who live so entirely within the make believe of others and without a body of self wrought experience that they never gain that experience acquired judgement necessary to making objective conclusions??

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

But there are a great number of people in the world who live so entirely within the make believe of others and without a body of self wrought experience that they never gain that experience acquired judgement necessary to making objective conclusions??

Egads, man. Care to decode that for us?

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by SailOar

It is precisely because of the desire to preserve the natural environment that autos are often restricted in national parks, and tourists must use shuttle buses.





We were assured by ReefMagnet that "the GBR is one of, if not the most, rigidly managed commercial and recreational fisheries in the world. Ditto for tourism and both commercial and recreational boating."



If that is true, then it is certainly true that Lizard Island National Park within the GBR must be even more "rigidly managed." And if Lizard Island National Park within the GBR is even more rigidly managed, then Lizard Island itself, with its international coral reef research facilities, must surely be extremely rigidly managed.

Whilst the GBR marine park essentially covers the entire GBR the tourist hot spots are limited to essentially a handful of locations. Lizard Island is one such location and it is also a northernmost stop for many cruisers doing the winter cruise along the coast.

For a little bit of history, Lizard Island is the Island that Captain Cook landed upon in 1770 in order to climb its peak for the purpose of finding a passage through the outer reef to the open sea. In this task he succeeded, however was nearly wrecked in the process on exit.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by SailOar

Your mouth says you're agnostic, but your actions say you're a denier. That suggests that the "tribe" you're a member of is mostly deniers, and you don't (yet) have the backbone to challenge them.

Nah mate, agnostic is it and I'm fairly scornful of folks who readily take on superstitions.

The quasi religious uptake of the "global warming" (initially, but then morphed to "climate change" in case global temperatures go into hiatus or even fall) theory is doing enormous economic damage and redirecting attention and funds from matters more urgently requiring global attention.

For example, take the massive construction of useless windmills to generate electricity. I am informed that these number thousands in Britain alone.

Modern predominately urban based civilization depends upon an uninterrupted supply to things like food storage facilities.

When I was a boy I lived in a small country town which had a slaughter house on the edge of town and every day beasts were slaughtered and dressed and distributed to the five or so butcher shops where it was hung in a meat room before being cut up and sold to folks who shopped there for it every day. There was no mass, dispersed, refrigerated food storage facilities as there are today. Neither today are there many local butcher shops or bakeries or market gardens as almost everything: grocery, meat, dairy and vegetable is distributed from regional distribution centres. The system is world wide and it's not unusual to find grapes from California in the fruit section of the local supermarket in a small country town in Australia.

So what has happened during my life time is that all that local infrastructure which used to support the nutritional needs of the folks in my home town has been replaced by a regional, national, and international structure entirely dependent upon an uninterrupted supply of electricity predominately supplied by giant coal generated electricity power stations. The few weeks world wide supply of a large proportion of human nutritional needs is now almost entirely dependent upon electricity driven refrigeration for it's proper storage and distribution.

Now, as appears fairly common in human affairs every now and then one of these quasi religious movements springs up and decides to change the world. One would think that a group of people deciding to imbue a rock or something with mystical powers is a fairly harmless pastime but as has occurred fairly often in human affairs these movements grow to engulf human societies in all sorts of nastiness.

In the instance of the replacement of reliable, centrally generated electricity with dispersed, so called "renewable", intermittent electrical power it is guaranteed that many of the systems modern civilization depends upon will fail. The beers going to get warm and the hamburger go rotten all because the nutty, susceptible-to-crank-religions portion of the population decides to support another quasi religious fashion.

I'm staying skeptical and agnostic to AGW/CC until it's proponents put forward a practicable replacement for the existing power system.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by SailOar

Almost 60 coral species around Lizard Island are 'missing' – and a Great Barrier Reef extinction crisis could be next

• We found 16% of coral species have not been seen for many years and are at risk of either local extinction, or disappearing from parts of their local range

No mention of the 53 (14.4%) new species that have populated the reef over the last 10 years.


Coral populations on specific reefs change over time, depending on local conditions - always have, always will.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Quick now, what could possibly be the (heavily documented) common global cause of tropical species (aquatic and terrrestrial, floral and faunal) expanding their ranges polewards in both directions?

Emergence from the Little Ice Age?
Species returning to the ranges they occupied during previous Holocene climate optima?

[Reefmagnet]

I can't help but think many believe coral is like a plant that drops seeds. It's larvae can swim in the currents, allowing the species to disperse. If an area "around" something is devoid of coral then there is some other factor at play rather than the climate.