Friend found some bitcoins he'd forgotten about lol

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

You can say that again.

A good friend of mine texted me the other day (he is an electrician). He's a very smart guy, but not a money man. He told me he's going to buy bitcoin. I said, "Dude... no offense, but if you're buying bitcoin, this is the top."

If you think bitcoin is volatile now, think about what will happen when this bubble pops and there isn't enough bandwidth in the exchanges to support orders to sell (or buy). That will cause wild fluctuations in value over short periods of time... In short, it will get very, very messy.

And then if the price really gets crushed, maybe... just maybe... I'm a buyer... Just not at 16k US.

I remember way, way, way back, when Bitcoin was trading around .50, I started mining Bitcoin. I had two computers going all night, then back to regular business during the day. The only reason I decided to "acquire" bitcoin was because people in the financial world were yelling that it "was in a bubble!" I learned not to trust most financial people long before.

When Bitcoin hit a solid $1.00, you would have thought the financial wizards head's were going to explode. "How can nothing be worth $1?" They said it couldn't. It was in a bubble. It would crash. Then it hit $2, then $10. People were losing their minds.

People are still losing their minds over Bitcoin - still saying its in a bubble, still saying it is going to crash. Yet, it has defied gravity FAR BEYOND most people's expectations or understanding. I am fairly confident it will continue to do so for quite some time. One day, everything will reconcile and we be able to look back on this era with awe, kind of like the 90's and the growth of the internet.

I stopped mining Bitcoin about three months after I started. I never paid much attention to how much I accumulated. In the early days, there were few professional miners, very little Bitcoin in the world, and my computers were generating Bitcoin pretty quickly. But back then, like everyone else, I figured it was a passing fad and the value would drop back to fractions of a penny. I lost my keys and I am one of the unfortunate people who "lost" Bitcoin.

Had I known, I would probably be sailing on my dream catamaran right now. But hey, some of my pot stocks are up 200% in two days!

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Suijin

And add this to the mix of contributing factors to volatility; massive bitcoin farms in Russia and China:

https://www.slavorum.org/largest-bit...cret-location/



When entities like these can effectively "print" money, what does that do to the stability of the currency? I have no idea, but I'm not certain that anyone else knows either.

And imagine how many more of these mining farms are right now being frantically assembled or expanded given the current valuation.

Effectively printing money destroys a currency, this has been repeated through out history many times, devaluing money through excessive creation of it leads to inflation.
Reserve banks have increased M2 money supply massively over recent years in an attempt to hold back the deflationary stage we are in, deflation is the enemy of fractional banking, it's un acceptable.
The distortions in our financial world due do chasing 2% inflation are huge asset bubbles. The problem with the likes of QE and other crazy experiments central banks are running is it could very easily turn into massive inflation, this is the death of money if they lose control of it..... Plenty of examples throughout history.

Bringing tommorow prosperity to now through credit can't go on for ever, yet credit is the back one of fractional banking.

[ValiantV]

He should unload them NOW, while they're still worth something. Frankly, nobody knows what they will be worth tomorrow, and there are plenty of monetary analysts that don't think much of Bitcoin.

Even if this isn't a "bubble" about to burst, if the feds decide they don't like it, they could be as valuable as Confederate money shortly.

Sent from my XT1254 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by ValiantV

He should unload them NOW, while they're still worth something. Frankly, nobody knows what they will be worth tomorrow, and there are plenty of monetary analysts that don't think much of Bitcoin.

Even if this isn't a "bubble" about to burst, if the feds decide they don't like it, they could be as valuable as Confederate money shortly.

Sent from my XT1254 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

If I had a Bitcoin for every time I heard this, I would be a billionaire!

Monetary analysts study money. Bitcoin is not money (yet.) Listening to what a monetary analyst thinks about Bitcoin is like listening to a mason tell you a concrete boat will not float. Monetary analysts do not study computers, cryptography, blockchain technology, or the human condition, just like a mason does not study naval architecture or hydrodynamics.

The "Feds" cannot stop Bitcoin unless they want to shut down the internet, and they are not going to do that. Bitcoin defies normal boundaries. If .gov locks the US out of Bitcoin, all someone has to do is trade it for another currency on a foreign exchange, then turn that foreign currency in to whatever they want. Or, they can trade it for a commodity with a foreign broker, then turn that commodity into cash, or something else. These are only two examples of hundreds. There is no stopping blockchain based digital tokens.

Long ago, one of the smartest people I knew told me that "there will NEVER be any reason to create a computer that is faster than 486SX," and he was a programmer and software engineer. Just like he was wrong back then, people are wrong about the presumed death of Bitcoin. People fear and demean what they do not understand. As a sailor everyone should be familiar with that. Bitcoin is no different.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by SailsWithFists

People are still losing their minds over Bitcoin - still saying its in a bubble, still saying it is going to crash. Yet, it has defied gravity FAR BEYOND most people's expectations or understanding. I am fairly confident it will continue to do so for quite some time. One day, everything will reconcile and we be able to look back on this era with awe, kind of like the 90's and the growth of the internet.

I agree, in general. Cryptocurrency is here to stay in one form or another. It's the digital equivalent of precious metals. It's currency in the same way that gold is a currency, it's a medium of exchange, but extra-national in that it's not a banknote. It's as obvious as email, smartphones, etc. It's the future...in some form.

As noted it's not the cryptocurrency that is important, it's blockchain tech, which is poised to serve as a hack proof, counterfeit proof ledger. It's only logical that it will serve as the backbone for currencies going forward...whether it's Bitcoin or something else.

That said, Bitcoin is going to be highly volatile for quite some time, maybe indefinitely. I don't think anyone is saying it's going away, just that any investment in it is subject to a high degree of risk. And some reward too. Putting money in it is akin to going to Vegas; don't gamble more than you can afford to lose.

[transmitterdan]

The problem I have with Bitcoin is that criminals are using it a lot. So much so that I believe people operating outside the law are mainly responsible for propping up the valuation spike. It is too easy for kidnappers, ransom ware crooks, tax cheats, etc. to use Bitcoin in their transactions. Isn't there something inherently wrong in profiting from criminals?

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

The problem I have with Bitcoin is that criminals are using it a lot. So much so that I believe people operating outside the law are mainly responsible for propping up the valuation spike. It is too easy for kidnappers, ransom ware crooks, tax cheats, etc. to use Bitcoin in their transactions. Isn't there something inherently wrong in profiting from criminals?

Criminals use boats and the oceans for illegal activities, operating outside of the law. Isn't there something inherently wrong in living a lifestyle and having leisure on the same waters as criminals?

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

The problem I have with Bitcoin is that criminals are using it a lot. So much so that I believe people operating outside the law are mainly responsible for propping up the valuation spike. It is too easy for kidnappers, ransom ware crooks, tax cheats, etc. to use Bitcoin in their transactions. Isn't there something inherently wrong in profiting from criminals?

Hmmm... you ever hear of the US Dollar?

Anyhow, if you’re a bitcoin hater today is your day for schadenfreude.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Yes when to get off the train, there lies the whole problem for me. It's a game of musical chairs and there's no way of determining when the music stops! But this applies to more than just Bitcoin right now. I'd rather be out of the market a year early than a day late! I'm out early, numbers just don't add up. I'm just not a gambler either BUT sometimes gambling pays off.

I must say I'm enjoying learning about the Crypto scene, it does draw attention to other issues as you mentioned the inheriant value of Fiat currencies.

You said "Struct GOLD" hardly Bitcoin is not GOLD

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by geoleo

You said "Struct GOLD" hardly Bitcoin is not GOLD

You are right.. it is not gold. It is something better.

That doesn't mean that it is here to stay or that it won't be a bust etc.. but it *can* work and it can lead to a changed world in ways most folks haven't yet even begun to grasp. This is virtual gold that can be moved without barriers and control world wide without big brother or governments sticking their fingers in your pie. Not only that but the underlying fabric of crypto currencies promises to deliver something much much bigger even than a currency from the people for the people.. a world wide trust database.

The implications are enormous.. buying a boat? check the title of the boat instantly. Transfer the title to me upon paying for it.. with no way of "cheating". Math protects your transaction so that if I payed for it, it now belongs to you and everyone in the world can see it. Imagine loaning money to a complete stranger in nigeria (he he) .. no problem. A smart contract and you are done.

No need for lawyers anymore!!

Yes.. the dreamers amongst us can think of a techno utopia, where mankind is all the better thanks to a worldwide trust database. Where this eliminates corrupt banks and politicians.. yes.. I want in.

Unfortunately I do not underestimate the level of human greed.. the powerful are not going to go down without a fight.. it will be declared illegal. It already has been in some countries. Folks are speculating on it to make a quick buck.. maybe it is all necessary as part of the transformation.. if it happens.

But if you think this is just some scam to get you go buy monopoly money etc.. think again. Do you really think the people of Venezuela flock to it cause they have too much money and they are all stupid? or that bitcoin mining now uses more electricity than all of Ireland cause the world has been caught up in a Ponzi scheme and no one sees it?... It truly is something with the potential to change the world. But I am sure odds are that we as a species will f*ck it up. We always do.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by SailsWithFists

Criminals use boats and the oceans for illegal activities, operating outside of the law. Isn't there something inherently wrong in living a lifestyle and having leisure on the same waters as criminals?

If I personally profit from the criminal activity then yes. I believe the price of bitcoin is mainly driven by demand created by criminals. So when an ordinary law abiding citizen sells bitcoin they are in all probability receiving ill-gotten cash (mainly drug money) for the bitcoin. It is wrong to buy stolen goods for cash, it's wrong to steal and then sell the goods for cash. Bitcoin is heavily involved in theft via kidnapping, ransom ware, and just plain money laundering not to mention tax avoidance. North Korea is funding a lot of their activity using bitcoin profits. We are seeing a lot of good people turn a blind eye in the quest for more money. It is sad to me.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by geoleo

You said "Struct GOLD" hardly Bitcoin is not GOLD

Did I? I agree it's not gold and I don't think it's better. Gold has an extensive history backing it. Bitcoin has some proving itself to do yet, at the moment it's not money or a currency although to a limited extent it can be used as a currency if converted back to a Fiat currency.

Golds been a form of money for a long time. It fits the definition of money more accurately than anything else including Bitcoin. I said money BTW not currency.

Which crypto will be around in the future? I have no idea. I stated earlier in this thread the main value is in the blockchain technology BUT I've now read that it has also already been possible made obsolete with the likes of Hashgraph or Iota. Things are moving quick in this space. Bitcoin has serious limitations, and it's limited numbers is a joke, it's man made!!

Cryptos will be part of our future lives, Bitcoin??? Who knows.... Thats the thing no one does ! Everyone guessing, including you & me.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

If I personally profit from the criminal activity then yes. I believe the price of bitcoin is mainly driven by demand created by criminals. So when an ordinary law abiding citizen sells bitcoin they are in all probability receiving ill-gotten cash (mainly drug money) for the bitcoin. It is wrong to buy stolen goods for cash, it's wrong to steal and then sell the goods for cash. Bitcoin is heavily involved in theft via kidnapping, ransom ware, and just plain money laundering not to mention tax avoidance. North Korea is funding a lot of their activity using bitcoin profits. We are seeing a lot of good people turn a blind eye in the quest for more money. It is sad to me.

You don't know that criminals are the prime drivers of cryptocurrencies! Absolutely there is criminal activity but I think it's gone way beyond that now.

Massive speculation is driving this show now, not criminals, not people on some self righteous anti Fiat currency rant, speculation..... get rich, I don't want to miss out, that's the driving force.... oh and some big whales manipulating the markets and making millions, IMHO.

But I'm guessing to....lol.

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I believe the price of bitcoin is mainly driven by demand created by criminals.

With all due respect, I don't think you're correct about that. This possibly was the case years ago, but with the amount of volume on these exchanges these days, I'd say it's average Joes and increasingly now banks and hedge funds. That or there are a LOT of criminals out there...

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

If I personally profit from the criminal activity then yes. I believe the price of bitcoin is mainly driven by demand created by criminals. So when an ordinary law abiding citizen sells bitcoin they are in all probability receiving ill-gotten cash (mainly drug money) for the bitcoin. It is wrong to buy stolen goods for cash, it's wrong to steal and then sell the goods for cash. Bitcoin is heavily involved in theft via kidnapping, ransom ware, and just plain money laundering not to mention tax avoidance. North Korea is funding a lot of their activity using bitcoin profits. We are seeing a lot of good people turn a blind eye in the quest for more money. It is sad to me.

Well, then you better stop using the US Dollar, Canadian Dollar, Euro, Peso, Dinar, Gold, Silver, and especially debt, since all of those are used far more than Bitcoin to facilitate illegal doings.

It seems you are falling prey to normal propaganda from bankers and governments who want you to believe in them, instead of that which is killing them. EVERYTHING you listed above is financed by US Dollars and Debt (debt = banks and governments) on orders of magnitude beyond anything Bitcoin does.

If you are sad about people profiting from Bitcoin, once you realize the truth your going to need serious therapy to cope.