Crazy Dakar

[Polux]

There are around any that were or are Baja racers or interested in Baja? cars or motorcycles?

If so probably you will be interested on the Dakar too and this year it promises to be something out of the ordinary and a good remember how weather is changing.

They had to postpone it several times....because the desert was flooded!!!

Crazy stuff on a race that promises to be more crazy than usual. It supposedly starts today but I don't know if they have conditions to race.

The Paris-Dakar started to be raced by French on the Sahara desert crossing to Dakar. Today due to the instability on the region is raced on South America and from a French race it is now a very international one with racers from all over the world.

If you are interested join in and we will be looking at it here, i mean if I am not the only one with an interest on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvQHhIFcbaw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilGrF8ekobE

[FSMike]

Originally Posted by Polux

-----Crazy stuff on a race that promises to be more crazy than usual. It supposedly starts today but I don't know if they have conditions to race.
-----

You aren't kidding. Newspaper report today said "---- four spectators at the Dakar Rally were injured after a Mini Cooper plowed into the crowd before the start of the race ----".
BEFORE the start? Sheesh.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by FSMike

You aren't kidding. Newspaper report today said "---- four spectators at the Dakar Rally were injured after a Mini Cooper plowed into the crowd before the start of the race ----".
BEFORE the start? Sheesh.

That was not properly what I meant. Dakar is a dangerous race, many riders had lost their lives but they know what they were risking. It is specially sad when spectators are hit.

Not the first time on Dakar and far from being the first time on racing events. Nobody died and I really hope all stays that way and all the ones that were hit by that car (10) may recover completely.

But there are some inaccuracy on the news, they were racing the Prologue that is a short (11km) special that determines the starting order of Dakar (the first on the track).

Guo Meiling, an experienced Chinese racer (a woman), exagerated on a jump, her car landed on the nose and she lost control. A sad beginning for the race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEqqrgHMArw

The Prologue was surprisingly won on cars by a Toyota truck and a Dutch driver, Bernhard ten Brinke, the 2th and 3th were two Spanish, Carlos Sainz (Peugeot) and Xavier Pons (Ford Ranger), the 4th was Nasser Al-Attiyah (Mini), at only 5 seconds.

On motorcycles two made the same time, the Spanish Joan Barreda (Honda) and the Portuguese Ruben Faria's (Husqvarna), the 4th was the Portuguese Rodrigues (Yamaha) followed by the French Van Beveren (Yamaha).

[jackdale]

I used to co-drive rally cars in western Canada and the US in the 1970's and early 80's. That is what got me into sailing.

Several of the guys who are fellow ISPA instructors also have motorsport backgrounds.

[Polux]

Yes, it seems that this will be the most interesting Dakar of the last years.

Some top pilots lost already lots of time on the mud!!!!

To find so many pilots with chances to victory due to different doses of talent experience we would have to go many years back and most of all they have cars and motorcycles with a similar performances.

For many years KTM dominated the Dakar, now there are several other motorcycles with similar performance and regarding pilots the Dakar veterans were joined by a new generation of enduro champions that certainly can ride fast...but will they be able to navigate and avoid the Dakar traps?

The same can be said regarding the autos, were the domination from the Mini seems to be over with the Peugeot (that last year was a flop) and the Toyota trucks being as competitive.

Regarding pilots a similar thing happened and the old Dakar stars (coming from very different racing backgrounds, including motorcycle racing) were joined by new rookies, but heavy weight ones, the best rally driver ever, 9 times world champion, Loeb and Hirvonen, that won several WRC rallyes and was a contender for world Champion several times.

Not surprisingly Loeb is leading....but till now it was easy, without navigation and with rally type specials....except the mud that he passed with flying colors on a two wheel buggy (the Citroen).... Chapeau.

Also the American star, RobbyGordon, that drives like a maniac, certainly the public favorite that this year has racing on his other car a young very talented American kid (18 years old) and since the Dakar is like a disease for life I bet this kid is going to make many Dakars and I bet it will win one, one day.

The summaries of stage 1,2 and three:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUy3Jh1VY-o

Stage 2 Summary - Car/Bike - (Villa Carlos Paz / Termas de Rio Hondo) - vidéo Dailymotion
Stage 3 Summary - Car/Bike - (Termas Rio Hondo / Jujuy) - vidéo Dailymotion

mad Robby Gordon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO9iT-aXDZI

And Loeb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOzduK7N7YA

If you guys can catch on channel television Eurosport, they broadcast everyday a 30 minutes program about the day stage, several times a day.

[Factor]

Huge Dakar fan - go Seb Loeb and el matador - Carlos Sainz in the cars and toby price in the bikes

[Polux]

I don't think Loeb as any chances to win the Dakar this year. Sure is probably the most talented pilot but that is not enough. If I would bet I would chose Peterhansel, this year with a good car he is going to be following closely Loeb till he makes a big mistake and then he will go away.

I have a huge respect for Peterhansel, done some motorcycle races where he was racing too and the guy is just not only a super pilot but a very nice guy.

Regarding motorcycles it is easy to understand why you favor Toby Price that may well be a contender. Obviously I favor any of the three fast Portuguese riders even if the fastest, Paulo Gonçalves, is probably too mad to manage a win. Maybe he has finally learned how to restrain his attack attitude to reasonable levels.

On motorcycles they are at the middle of the stage and at that point the Spanish Barreda (Honda) is 1st, followed by Gonçalves (+ 6 seconds). Toby Price did not have passed yet WP5. On WP4 he was in 15th position with a Portuguese rider immediately ahead and other behind
Good stage for an American rider, Brabec that is riding on 14th place, ahead of the 2th Portuguese rider.

The name does not tell me nothing but it has to be good to go as fast so I check it out, and off course he is good, racing on a factory bike:

"The latest US wonder kid to show up on the Dakar will be Ricky Brabec. At only 24 years of age, the Californian has already captured the three most prestigious titles in US desert racing: the Hare & Hound, Best in the Desert and Score, thanks to triumphs in the Baja 1000, Baja 500 and San Felipe 250. And it wasn't really a surprise when the HRC team turned to him for the Dakar."

Regarding cars they are at the beginning of the stage, Loeb is leading.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Veteran of many Baja races.... crew, prerunner, chase, and spectator ...

P2D is the ultimate!

[zeehag]

unfortunately i lost interest in rallies when a dear friend's husband died in the mint 400 in 198something. his loss caused her to disappear--- i LOVED sports car racing and formula 1, so i kept with that after his death, instead of the rallies and off road stuff.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

Veteran of many Baja races.... crew, prerunner, chase, and spectator ...

P2D is the ultimate!

Nice to know Motorcycles or cars?

When I was a kid I dreamed to make the Baja 1000. Fortunately I was not the only one and soon in Portugal started to happen Baja type races that soon become international. That's why you now have so many top Portuguese riders on a country that has a population about the size of the one of New York. It all begun with my generation.

Spanish Barreda won today's stage followed by Portuguese Gonçalves and by the Argentinian Benavides.

On cars Peterhansel is leading followed by All Attiyaha and Loeb.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by zeehag

unfortunately i lost interest in rallies when a dear friend's husband died in the mint 400 in 198something. his loss caused her to disappear--- i LOVED sports car racing and formula 1, so i kept with that after his death, instead of the rallies and off road stuff.

Accidents happen, some die also in sail races but I agree Dakar is a dangerous race. I raced this kind of stuff but the race tracks in Portugal are a lot more technical and sinuous and my preferred one, with a lot of clay/mud, so the average speed for the best was a bit over 80km/h. Raced for more than a decade and never broke a bone (I was lucky).

On these races it is normal on a racer's carrier to break bones and everybody hits the ground regularly but what makes the Dakar dangerous are some kind of incredibly fast stages were nowadays the best hit 175km/h and on the old days with the monstrous two cylinders motorcycles (now forbidden) around 200km/h.

The time you get to slow down a motorcycle at over 160km/h on dirt has nothing to do with the time that is needed to slow down from 130km/h and at 160Km/h any slight bump puts you on the air for a looong time and you never know where you are going to land.

Also at 160km/h and over things happen so fast that the capacity to read the ground ahead is seriously diminished. Yes dangerous race were everybody, good ones and medium pilots, take some unavoidable risks. 28 pilots have lost their life there since 1979.

All have conscience of the risks that they take...but who can say no to Dakar? It is too beautiful to miss, if someone has the chances to make it. Not cheap and not many have the possibility to do it even if they have the required skills and stamina.

Back on the race on motorcycles, it seems that Ricky Brabec, the American champion, is slowly improving but still has much to learn. It is odd has a guy that won the Baja 1000 and has an official Honda racer is not able to get here on the top 10. The same can be said regarding several Enduro world champions, also racing here and it shows how particular this race is.

Ricky is improving, he made 24th yesterday, 14th yesterday and 17th today and probably bettered is 22th overall position.

The Australian Toby Price has dona a fantastic job on the second half of the special coming from 15th place to 7th place and probably bettered also his overall 9th place. Probably he followed, maybe even fight with the Portuguese Faria, that at the middle of the race was in 14th place. Both have made the last part full blast, finishing Faria ahead (in 5th) three minutes ahead.

Lots of penalization this year for speeding, many zones with a speed limit of 100km/h and i think that it is were they got the penalties. Faria got one minute but way worse was Barreda (Honda) that got 6 minutes!!!. That cost him today's special, that was won by Gonçalves that is now leading overall the Dakar. Faria (Huskvarna) is 5th, Price (KTM) is 7th and Ricky (Honda) is 17th. Faria is at about 5m from the leader and Price at about 7m.

This stage was a marathon stage that means that nobody except themselves can touch the motorcycles and that means less sleep and no big repairs can be done till after tomorrow stage. The same for the cars.

On cars things are as interesting as on the motorcycles with three Peugeot finishing the stage on the 3 first places, Peterhansel, Sainz and Loeb. Al Attiyhia, on the Mini, was 4th and the first Toyota (Alrajhi) was 6th at only 5m 59s from the first. Robby Gordon was 10th and I don't think the American kind of truck he drives has any chances of winning the Dakar. It is a pity since I have no doubt Robby Gordon is a great pilot.

No change on the Overall leading order on the Dakar (cars) in what regards the 3 first but now Peterhansel is closer to Loeb, at 4m48s.

[Polux]

Yesterday's special in images:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgtUBfBvNJU

With the last victory on the stage Peterhansel managed to equalize his number of victories in motorcycle and car: 33 on each type of racing machine. 66 on the total. The man is a living legend

For the ones that don't know that well the Dakar an excellent short explanation provided by one of the racing teams:

Regulations
ABC of Rallye Raid

That's for cars. Regarding motorcycles it is about the same, you can only win if you are a damn good pilot, if you have Dakar experience and if you have an official racing bike and are supported by a official racing team.

For the others there is a different race on bikes you can buy on the dealer and prepare them yourself, the G2 class. Even in what regards these guys there are two very different groups, the ones that have the support of the team and the ones that make the Dakar practically alone.

That means that the last not only have slower motorcycles, arrive later, many times already at night, have to change the tires and do all the work on the motorcycle by themselves and go racing next day again after having slept just a couple of hours. The true Dakar heroes and for these ones just arriving is a huge accomplishment.

A look at the classification of the ones that race with production bikes and if you think these guys are not good think again:

1st is the Spanish Txomin Aranda, a Basque, on a 450 Husqvarna. He finished 16th overall last year's Dakar. Overall he is 20th now.

The 2th is the Romanian Emanuel Gyenes on a KTM 450. Last year he was 21th overall and in 2011 won this class being 17th overall. This is is 6th Dakar. He is 22th overall now.

The 3th is the Portuguese Mario Patrão, on is 3th Dakar and the first with a "decent " motorcycle, a KTM 450. With a Suzuki he finished in 36th in 2014 and he is now 31th overall.

I don't know the two first that well but I am quite sure they are champions because I know Patrão and I know he is one, so the other has to be at least as good.

Mario Patrão has 25 national titles as Portuguese champion on Enduro and Rally Raid. That talks about the level of racing among motorcycle riders and explain how an American top Champion like Ricky Brabec with an official HRC Honda racing machine is only 17th overall on the Dakar.

[Polux]

Great stage today, the 2th part of a Marathon stage (no mechanics for the motos or cars and all assistance from the riders would be out of closed park and that mean, with 5the clock one, losing time.

Several chose the day to go on full attack mode, among them the Australian Toby Price that leads the stage, Meo, the French 5 times world Enduro Champion that is 3th and American Ricky Brabec that is 4th.

The Spanish Barreda Bort is also going very fast, trying to regain the Rally leadership (2th). Paulo Gonçalves is playing defensively being 7th at 6m45s of the leader. On this stage they are racing with used tires and the risk of finishing with the tire and lose a lot of time is a real one but they are not far away from the finish.

Regarding the ones with production motorcycles the first one is the Spanish Arana followed by the Romanian Gyenes and the Portuguese Patrão. They are all going very fast on the middle of motorcycles of the above class, on 15th, 16th and 29th. Patrão, the last of the three is only at 2m from Arana, the first of the class.

That means that with a difference of time with less than 2m there are 14 riders, this with 170m of racing time. That is how close this guys are. All great riders.

An the faster are finishing just now, the first to finish was Paulo but he cannot control the ones that started behind and is going to have a surprise because several have been faster. In fact the leading one is always on a disadvantageous position since he has to do the navigation...and the others have only to follow his dust and hope he does it right.

The Australian Toby Price was the fastest, winning 9 minutes to Paulo Gonçalves (9th) , French Meo was 2nd, Slovenian Svitko was 3th, Austrian Walkner was 4th, the Spanish Barreda was 5th...and the American Ricky Brabec that was 4th at the middle of the stage is only 12th. Something not good happened to him (destroyed tire, lost, fall???).

If this times are confirmed Paulo leads the Rally followed by Svitko and Price. The fight for leadership is really close and the first 8 are all inside 9 minute and 9 minutes at the Dakar, with so many specials to go is nothing. Even the American Ricky Brabec (14th) is at only 26 minutes from the 1st.

A funny video about the Enduro and rally car Champions on the Dakar, navigation and road book. Let me say the change it is much harder for the motorcycle guys since they have to do all the navigation by themselves while on the cars they have a navigator seated on the side, and one that has many years of experience on Dakar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmZlFHvp78E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KteH4q5kG-4

Regarding cars they are the middle of the stage and Loeb is leading followed by Sainz , Al-Attiyah and Peterhansel. From the mini only Al-Attiyah seems able to follow the rhythm of the Peugeot. They are all inside a 2 minutes and Peterhansel is the first on the track with the disadvantage that represents.

Robby Gordon is making a great stage and is 5th, the first Toyota, Ten Brinke is 6th at less than 3m from the 1st.

A final note: May I point your attention to this girl?

Yes she is a beauty but that is not what I meant
She is doing the Dakar and she is 19th overall at 6 minutes from the American Champion Ricky Brabec (16th) that is about 26 minutes from the Dakar leader.

Do I have your attention for Laia? Probably she likes sailing too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laia_Sanz

[Polux]

Yesterday images (stage 5) are beautiful specially on the motorcycles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REIgIrhBtaA

Today's special will be the longest of the Dakar with 542km and will be raced at an incredible altitude: between 3500 and 4500m.

On yesterday's special Paulo said that his performance was handicapped by a big headache almost since the start to the finish. I bet he is not the only one affected by the lack of oxygen, so to the difficulty of the track, that alternates sand and rock, the difficulty of racing with lack of oxygen that does not only handicap engines but also racers.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

Nice to know Motorcycles or cars?

All classes in one form or another... bugs, rails, trucks, and bikes... Only chased and pre-ran on bikes... helped crew trucks and rails... early days.... like '80-'98 ish timeframe

When I was a kid I dreamed to make the Baja 1000. Fortunately I was not the only one and soon in Portugal started to happen Baja type races that soon become international. That's why you now have so many top Portuguese riders on a country that has a population about the size of the one of New York. It all begun with my generation..

It's good clean fun, albeit dangerous as all get out... I'm glad it has evolved to so many places... Portugal seems like a perfect fit!