Coral Reef Status

[RaymondR]

There used to be a well on the point illustrated which produced hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of barrels of oil. Where was it?

[mochifanta]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

Well thankfully (on this Thanksgiving day where us US citizens state things we're grateful for) the solar sector has surpassed coal. Financially and productively. Wind is coming up to do the same in the next year. People are investing and making money [emoji383] in spite of old (but slowly changing) policies favouring the oil industry. The world is changing, you can't stop it.

Made a similar point below. Coal has effectively been regulated out of existence in the US. Energy production has shifted to natural gas driven by fracking. Pipelines and LNG terminals would be a big help to Europe right about now.

Hopefully Solar and our ability to store electricity will improve enough to supplant natural gas and oil. Meanwhile, let’s not get ahead of ourselves such that we create unnecessary risk to our economic stability, which can lead to really bad outcomes like war.

Throw in some Gen IV nuclear power and maybe you make a dent in CO2 emissions before the end of the century, especially if developing countries can/will participate in a meaningful way.

The following analysis is from 2008, so somewhat depressing progress, but interesting nonetheless.

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com...and-oil-52693/

This next bit of analysis is obviously biased, but does highlight some of the open challenges to a transition.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blog...e-fossil-fuels

And just to show that I am not a conspiracy nut, here is the CATF and their work to advance the transition as soon as possible by any and all means.

https://www.catf.us/work/power-plants/

More power to them, I just hope that the solar, storage and grid are ready before oil and gas are turned off and nuclear continues to disappear.

Back to the original post, clean air and water, sustainable use of natural resources. These are things I support wholeheartedly.

And I sincerely hope that technology advances quickly enough to blunt the economic impact of the most ill conceived policy choices to the greatest extent possible.

People without food or power is not something anyone would want. Again, wars are frequently fought over these necessities.

Nor do we want to go backwards with respect to the standard of living and rates of poverty because we no longer have cheap and plentiful sources of energy.


My plan:

1. Keep drilling, build pipeline lines, and LNG terminals
2. Improve sector level energy efficiency regulations to lower demand by 5% every decade for 50 years using cap and trade, not on emissions but on energy use.
3. Improve national grids and interconnections
4. Mandate that utilities develop and implement a transition from fossil to electric using solar+storage plus nuclear over 50 years transitioning 20% each decade with more distributed power generation and net metering.

What can we do now and in the coming decade to have the most impact while planning for the future that will take time and significant capital investment.

Our water ways and air have been transformed over the last 50 years. I believe that this timeframe is a reasonable transition period for a thoughtful and a sustainable future.

And it doesn’t matter whether you believe in climate change or CO2 as a pollutant. It’s just cheaper, faster, better.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

There used to be a well on the point illustrated which produced hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of barrels of oil. Where was it?

Well, yay. But if we're going to seriously play "spot the mining/fossil-fuel blight" with satellite photos, you won't be pleased.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by mochifanta

My plan:

1. Keep drilling, build pipeline lines, and LNG terminals
2. Improve sector level energy efficiency regulations to lower demand by 5% every decade for 50 years using cap and trade, not on emissions but on energy use.
3. Improve national grids and interconnections
4. Mandate that utilities develop and implement a transition from fossil to electric using solar+storage plus nuclear over 50 years transitioning 20% each decade with more distributed power generation and net metering.

I appreciate your comments and your suggested plan, but the time to have started this 50 yr plan... was about 50 years ago, when there was already an understanding that this would be a looming problem. But 50 years of denial, misinformation, lobbying, and politicking has pushed serious action back long enough for significant harms to have already been experienced. There's now urgency to act more quickly than your "slow and steady" plan seems to acknowledge.

After the carbon savings from fracked gas displacing coal use (fracking is a mixed blessing, and not a long-term viable process), and the energy usage contraction from COVID, carbon emissions have resumed an upward trend. The only recent bright-spot in the carbon emission picture... is renewables.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

There used to be a well on the point illustrated which produced hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of barrels of oil. Where was it?

Absolutely fantastic!!! We don't need to worry about fossil fuel extraction damage to the environment any longer because there is one nicely cleaned up site!
(Sarcasm alert)

[RaymondR]

One mans sight blight is another mans wonderful "renewable" wind or solar farm.

The biggest problem with solar, wind and the other so called "renewables" is that they are just not going to work to fulfill any modern civilizations energy needs.

However the world is being recklessly driven down the path to scarcity by the precipitant abandonment of carbon and hydrocarbon fuel, already being demonstrated in Europe and soon to be in Australia, by fools who readily adopt the utopianist myth makers who will most profit from the decent into folly in energy matters. Who so you think is behind the development of these wind and solar farms?

The curse of the twentieth century was the armament manufacturers, the most notorious of whom was probably Krupp in Germany, the curse of the twenty first will be the promoters and manufacturers of wind and solar and the other schemes in the so called "renewables" pantheon.

The term "renewables" in relation to energy production is not truthfully descriptive, it is pure propagandistic and designed to create an emotive appeal.

In mankinds evolution from the cave to the skyscraper energy use has played a vital part and there is no going back, the competition for the available caves is bound to be fierce and violent and if it emulates mans previous contests for resources it will be the least desirable of folks who prevail.

It was inevitable that somewhere in the world the Industrial Revolution would occur and that coal and petroleum products would power it, they being the most concentrated and available sources available to replace the more disparate wood fired power sources.

The only truly viable source of practicable energy, in the absence of fusion nuclear which has yet to be proven possible, is the even more energy dense fission nuclear and it is the problems associated with it which our ruling elites should be addressing rather than the promotion if impracticable, disparate alternatives which will eventually prove to be incapable of supplying mankinds energy needs. Chopping forests down in North America to ship in hydrocarbon burning vessels to power wood fired electricity generation in Britain and Europe is the work of people with serious mental health issues not magicians of a new "renewables" driven energy age.

The other issue that our governing elites should be addressing is how to sensibly control the biological urges of humankind which has bought us to a world of excessive resource usage and reduce the numbers calling upon it without massive social disruption or misery. Western nation experience is that giving women the choice of being baby factories or diverting their urges into fully enjoying the benefits of a technological age and liberal societies they will abandon the baby factory model. This depends of course upon them not being obliged to spend all day searching for twigs to light the fire required to cook dinner and being able to twist, flick down or even voice command the source of heat required and slip the dirty dishes and pots into the electricity consuming dish washer whilst she joins the rest of the family in front of the electricity consuming TV.

If we're going to decarbonize our beneficial modern societies to the benefit of everyone and not just the seekers of political power and the tax payers dollar it's fission nuclear or bust folks and we should just get on with it.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The biggest problem with solar, wind and the other so called "renewables" is that they are just not going to work to fulfill any modern civilizations energy needs.

We all just need to stop engaging with this person.
Data has no effect.
Reason has no effect.
No matter what any of us say, he just conjures up some other right wing fossil fuel industry propaganda baloney and spews it all over again.
He is just trolling and I am done with it.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by lestersails

We all just need to stop engaging with this person.
Data has no effect.
Reason has no effect.
No matter what any of us say, he just conjures up some other right wing fossil fuel industry propaganda baloney and spews it all over again.
He is just trolling and I am done with it.

So yours is the only true mantra..
Divergent or Erudite..

[LakeSuperior]

No matter how you slice it, it is humanly impossible to decarbonize our world with wind and solar in a timely manner.

Yes, if you want a massive dislocation, massive chaos in our functioning societies just turn off the oil and gas spigots. Transition be dammed. Shiver through the dark night.

Lestersails and SailOar, the practical reality is you guys will not live long enough to see a decarbonized society using wind, solar, and conservation no matter your level of wishful thinking, no matter how hard you pound the keyboard. Those are just the raw facts. That train left the station a 100 years ago.

Your time would be better spent enabling safe fusion and limitless fission sources and hope they come on line before another 3 degrees of warming.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The biggest problem with solar, wind and the other so called "renewables" is that they are just not going to work to fulfill any modern civilizations energy needs.

Nobody ever said they would alone be sufficient. You can stop trafficking that falsehood anytiime. Please.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by lestersails

We all just need to stop engaging with this person.
Data has no effect.
Reason has no effect.
No matter what any of us say, he just conjures up some other right wing fossil fuel industry propaganda baloney and spews it all over again.
He is just trolling and I am done with it.

fossil carbon and hydrocarbons have in excess of a two hundred years record of reliable availability as an industrial, transportation and domestic usage and needs to be replaced with something guaranteeing similar levels of cost, availability and reliability and utopianist fantasies are not going to provide it.

You know you are breaking through when they try to de-platform you.

YOU KAIN'T STAND DA TRUTH

[Wotname]

Sometimes the best stuff isn't the best stuff for long term use.

Some past experiences tells us pure opium is the best pain relief but we no longer use it. DDT is the best bug killer but we no longer use it.

Sometimes second best is best in the long run.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

One mans sight blight is another mans wonderful "renewable" wind or solar farm.

The biggest problem with solar, wind and the other so called "renewables" is that they are just not going to work to fulfill any modern civilizations energy needs.

However the world is being recklessly driven down the path to scarcity by the precipitant abandonment of carbon and hydrocarbon fuel, already being demonstrated in Europe and soon to be in Australia, by fools who readily adopt the utopianist myth makers who will most profit from the decent into folly in energy matters. Who so you think is behind the development of these wind and solar farms?

The curse of the twentieth century was the armament manufacturers, the most notorious of whom was probably Krupp in Germany, the curse of the twenty first will be the promoters and manufacturers of wind and solar and the other schemes in the so called "renewables" pantheon.

The term "renewables" in relation to energy production is not truthfully descriptive, it is pure propagandistic and designed to create an emotive appeal.

In mankinds evolution from the cave to the skyscraper energy use has played a vital part and there is no going back, the competition for the available caves is bound to be fierce and violent and if it emulates mans previous contests for resources it will be the least desirable of folks who prevail.

It was inevitable that somewhere in the world the Industrial Revolution would occur and that coal and petroleum products would power it, they being the most concentrated and available sources available to replace the more disparate wood fired power sources.

The only truly viable source of practicable energy, in the absence of fusion nuclear which has yet to be proven possible, is the even more energy dense fission nuclear and it is the problems associated with it which our ruling elites should be addressing rather than the promotion if impracticable, disparate alternatives which will eventually prove to be incapable of supplying mankinds energy needs. Chopping forests down in North America to ship in hydrocarbon burning vessels to power wood fired electricity generation in Britain and Europe is the work of people with serious mental health issues not magicians of a new "renewables" driven energy age.

The other issue that our governing elites should be addressing is how to sensibly control the biological urges of humankind which has bought us to a world of excessive resource usage and reduce the numbers calling upon it without massive social disruption or misery. Western nation experience is that giving women the choice of being baby factories or diverting their urges into fully enjoying the benefits of a technological age and liberal societies they will abandon the baby factory model. This depends of course upon them not being obliged to spend all day searching for twigs to light the fire required to cook dinner and being able to twist, flick down or even voice command the source of heat required and slip the dirty dishes and pots into the electricity consuming dish washer whilst she joins the rest of the family in front of the electricity consuming TV.

If we're going to decarbonize our beneficial modern societies to the benefit of everyone and not just the seekers of political power and the tax payers dollar it's fission nuclear or bust folks and we should just get on with it.

Talking to energy regulators recently they remained convinced in that 70% % self sufficiently is absolutely achievable in the next 10 years with the most coming from wind. Grid interconnects will able load demand to be handled or E cress energy to be sold on.

Right now their big problem is too much renewables. at times. Wind operators don’t like being told to turn off producing power

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Some past experiences tells us pure opium is the best pain relief but we no longer use it.

Awhile back I asked my doctor, (a young guy,) for a bottle of "Laudanum", had to explain to him what it was.
Ok, back to regular programming.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Talking to energy regulators recently they remained convinced in that 70% % self sufficiently is absolutely achievable in the next 10 years with the most coming from wind. Grid interconnects will able load demand to be handled or E cress energy to be sold on.

Right now their big problem is too much renewables. at times. Wind operators don’t like being told to turn off producing power

The network operators must comply with very strict frequency specifications and more than about 20% "renewables" is all the networks can absorb before they become unstable. If they cannot overcome the problem now how will they do it at higher penetrations?