A call for mod action and user restraint

[Fore and Aft]

I think this is a fantastic forum and love the way it is run. I think it is way less crude than another sailing forum.
Often I think it is differences in cultures that cause some of the misunderstandings on this forum. I am always reminding myself that because people cannot hear my tone of voice they might miss my sarcasm.
Anyway it's been a big wrapping week in our household with two kids and santa visiting shortly. No rapped knuckles this year so there is no shortage of presents

Cheers

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by Knot Safety

Board members

Like many of you, I have followed this forum for many years.... SNip %<

Most of the politics is focused on US issues.

As a non US person, it is disgusting how much US politics invades the rest of the world - and these threads.


SNip %<

Please take your political bs somewhere else.

As a US person I find this attack on posters from the US, the US and it's politics to be unworthy.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by evm1024

As a US person I find this attack on posters from the US, the US and it's politics to be unworthy.

I agree, leave the forum the way it is.

My experience is that if one wishes to participate in a serious technical discussion it tends to happen without much in the way of tears and if one wishes to participate in a little political biff and bash there's pretty well always someone to accommodate you.

US politics is almost certain to go back to it's usual dull and boring state now that The Great Disruptor is gone south anyway.

[Uricanejack]

Like the OP I’m a Canadian.

Unfortunately Canadian politics are to dull and boring to infiltrate Internet forums, and interesting Canadian forums where Canadian politics might interfere don’t exist.

So we make do with American and British politics.

Sorry I thought was a late night joke thread.

[SeanPatrick]

Originally Posted by Uricanejack

... interesting Canadian forums where Canadian politics might interfere don’t exist.

lol

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by evm1024

As a US person I find this attack on posters from the US, the US and it's politics to be unworthy.

As an also-US person, I find the attacks on our politics to be 100% correct, as embarrassing as that may be. I won't share my opinions on how we got this way, but it's hard not to see how dysfunctional our system has become.

That said, supposedly Benjamin Franklin and/or Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all others." Yes, our politics are messy. But I'm not sure we'd want "boring." We ARE going to disagree.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

...That said, supposedly Benjamin Franklin and/or Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all others." Yes, our politics are messy. But I'm not sure we'd want "boring." We ARE going to disagree.

If I may be so bold, speaking as an outsider, the problem with American politics is not that there is disagreement. It's more that your politics have become tribal.

In reality, the Republican and Democratic positions on most things really aren't that far apart. As I mentioned elsewhere, the political range in the USA is quite small compared to most other democracies. Both your D and your R are firmly in the upper right-of-centre quadrant of political thought. So the divisions are not really about policy or philosophical approach.

They're about "my team" vs "your team." This is what makes them so intractable.

What's interesting is how recent this phenomena is. I recall studying political science back in the late 80s through to the early 00s. The USA was held up as an example of a country where party labels meant little. There was no where near the kind of block voting ("party discipline" as it is called here) that happens in other parliamentary democracies. That was seen as a strength of the American approach.

All this changed somewhere along the line. Somehow, parties became symbols of which side one was on -- symbols of the tribe.

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If I may be so bold, speaking as an outsider, the problem with American politics is not that there is disagreement. It's more that your politics have become tribal.

In reality, the Republican and Democratic positions on most things really aren't that far apart. As I mentioned elsewhere, the political range in the USA is quite small compared to most other democracies. Both your D and your R are firmly in the right-of-centre quadrant of political thought. So the divisions are not really about policy or philosophical approach.

They're about "my team" vs "your team." This is what makes them so intractable.

What's interesting is how recent this phenomena is. I recall studying political science back in the late 80s through to the early 00s. The USA was held up as an example of a country where party labels meant little. There was no where near the kind of block voting ("party discipline" as it is called here) that happens in other parliamentary democracies. That was seen as a strength of the American approach.

All this changed somewhere along the line. Somehow, parties became symbols of which side one was on -- symbols of the tribe.

Very well said and sadly quite true.

As a circle has no beginning it is useless to seek the caster of the first "stone". Extremes on both sides ...

My wife was born in the USSR (Ukraine actually) and is greatly worried by the rhetoric she is hearing. She thinks that there is an agent behind the polarization in US politics. Pick your bogeyman (Russia, China, Soros, etc)

I've at times participated in the forums over at ybw.com. As expected UK events and politics tended to be written about. Red Fuel, Brexet and the like. What you would expect from a UK based website.

Without knowing the actual percentage of members that are US based I suspect that it is over 50%. And as such I would expect US politics to "intrude".

Lastly, given the size of the US, changes in US politics effect much of the world. And thus I would expect US politics to "intrude" at times.

But back to the point of Mike's post - the tribalism of US politics are apparent in the postings of the like.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If I may be so bold, speaking as an outsider, the problem with American politics is not that there is disagreement. It's more that your politics have become tribal.

In reality, the Republican and Democratic positions on most things really aren't that far apart. As I mentioned elsewhere, the political range in the USA is quite small compared to most other democracies. Both your D and your R are firmly in the upper right-of-centre quadrant of political thought. So the divisions are not really about policy or philosophical approach.

They're about "my team" vs "your team." This is what makes them so intractable.

What's interesting is how recent this phenomena is. I recall studying political science back in the late 80s through to the early 00s. The USA was held up as an example of a country where party labels meant little. There was no where near the kind of block voting ("party discipline" as it is called here) that happens in other parliamentary democracies. That was seen as a strength of the American approach.

All this changed somewhere along the line. Somehow, parties became symbols of which side one was on -- symbols of the tribe.

Sad but all so very true. And perhaps first among the symbols used are personalities instead of their ideas, sources of information rather than the news and opinions they're broadcasting, institutions that experts and authorities are associated with in lieu of their actual opinions, and so on . . . . Always easier to demonize the "other side" than it is to go through the trouble of getting past superficial labels and stereotypes. It's a recipe for distorting truth and for demagoguery, which is exactly what we have.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If I may be so bold, speaking as an outsider, the problem with American politics is not that there is disagreement. It's more that your politics have become tribal.

Originally Posted by evm1024

She thinks that there is an agent behind the polarization in US politics. Pick your bogeyman (Russia, China, Soros, etc).

Originally Posted by Exile

And perhaps first among the symbols used are personalities instead of their ideas... It's a recipe for distorting truth and for demagoguery, which is exactly what we have.

I can't comment beyond saying every word of the above three posts (condensed here for brevity) are true.

I don't have the answer. I'm not even sure who the bogeyman is. Perhaps it's the whole system of media outlets chasing eyeballs by trying to be more inflammatory and shocking than the competition. Demagoguery thrives in such an environment.

[jkleins]

The reality of this and most threads is that they are over after the first page or so and everything else is comments about other comments and not about the OP's original concern. This is usually where the personality and politics gets involved. I have several I continue to follow just for the fun of it (like watching a car wreck) but many I just let go. I see nothing wrong or bad about any of it as long as people stay civil. I don't think the OP's solution is reality based in any way so I have to think it was more of a way to get things off his/her chest, so to speak.

Jim

[goboatingnow]

There’s hardly a person in the world not interested in the US and US politics. The whole world has an opinion on the last crazy 4 years.

To suggest that wouldn’t come out in a forum is ridiculous. The other thing is that Say an interested European forum commentator has both knowledge of the US and European perspectives whereas the countering US perspective has very little detailed knowledge of the European perspective. Hence they ( US posters ) cant give back in equal spades about European drawbacks.

This then tends to look one sided but simply is a function of the knowledge base.

[theDangerz]

Anyone else catch the irony that a thread started specifically to limit/outlaw political posts quickly became nothing other than political posts?!

Seriously... who saw that coming?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Threads about political style topics are fine , but threads that start on a pragmatic topic which are then infested by political rants they need serious moderation , I had one recently where a topic on VAT and registration was infested by comments about “ commie Europe “ and Brexit style nonsense

I agree that when they get out of hand it should be stopped. But dont go too far.

I am on some forums where you cant mention anything that could be related to politics in any way. It's difficult to even use that forum.

EXAMPLE: On a music forum, I once showed a picture of Bernie Sanders holding a Zither in Central Park. No political wording at all. I was kicked off the forum for a week! Haven't been back in years.

[250224]

Originally Posted by theDangerz

Seriously... who saw that coming?

Tomorrow never knows...