Reality check for future solo cruising budget- $70k to start and $3k/month?.

[NRosenthal]

Your in LA, my boat is in Ventura and for sale. Great boat in great shape. Channel Island are 2-3 hours away and offer a great opportunity to refine your skills.
www.malaya4sail.com
Ad in classifieds.

[fred4936]

Sounds feasible to me. We are planning a similar budget with the two of us. I would figure about half of your boat budget on boat purchase, the balance on repairs and upgrades. Do as much work on it yourself as you can.

[belizesailor]

In general I think your plan is reasonable and incorporates some realistic flexibilty. You do not need a big fancy extensively equipped boat to go cruising (despite what you may read).

I paid $35K for my first cruising boat...and then proceeded to spend at least that much in repairs and upgrades, but still thats about $70K all total. We had a lot of great adventures in that boat.

You will have to shop carefully for a boat, but it can be found. Best to look for a modest older boat from a retiring cruiser. This way the boat is already outfitted. A friend of mine once bought a very nice Pearson 35 that was fully outfitted from a retiring cruiser. He paid about $40K. Great boat and amlost everything worked. It was not until years later, while he was outfitting a new boat, that he fully appreciated what a great deal he got.

There are still plenty of good old boats out there at modest prices, you just need to be patient and vigilent.

Whether $3K per month is a sufficient budget depends on your cruising lifestyle. For typical cruisers I think that is plenty. E ample: Like many, we cruise seasonally. In our case, I have more boat expenses when we are not cruising: dockage/maintenance/upgrades etc. Once we get underway for cruising season, we rarely spend more than $1K/month. But we tend to favor more remote locations which lack lots of temptations to spend money (thats not why we prefer them, they just have fewer). So, if I had to cover all boat expenses from a $3K monthly budget then it would average out just fine.

There are loads of threads on cruising budgets you can review.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by mickand

"Buying a condo and renting it out" - even if you have friends to 'maybe take care of it' I recommend using an agent (they normally take 15% of the rent) to vet the prospective tenants, set up contracts, take the rent etc.. You will be far from home, cruising in style, and you don't need any rental headaches. I rented my house for 6 years whilst cruising and a good agent to me was priceless.

One point to have written into your contract upfront - if you agree to a sitting tenant buying the place, the agent will want a piece so negotiate the smallest percentage you can agree on.

To expand on this...NEVER make the mistake of having "friends" or "uncle Joe" manage a rental property for you (unless of course Uncle Joe is a semi-retired pro PM). In the end, they can cost you WAY more money than a good pro property management company. All they have to do is screw up handling one of many issuses (like: eviction, important repairs, etc) or get taken by a "professional tenant" (who shop for properties with amatuer PMs).

Ive made this mistake before. Using a good pro PM company makes a HUGE difference.

However, even with a great PM there are sometimes matters that will at least require your interaction with the PM (sometimes more if the SHTF).

Multifamily properties in general produce much more income per $ invested than single family. And they do so more reliably...a SF property is either 100% occuppied or 100% vacant, whereas a MF property may have a vacancy, but is still producing revenue.

If you want truly trouble free real estate based income then consider REITs or Private Equity...and leave all the hassles of ownership entirely in the hands of pros.

[CruiseN]

I believe yes..
I don't know the topographical location though.

Higher than mine down here. I'm working on nice round figures of
50 for berth,
50 for bum,
50 for her food,
50 for my tum.

400 week.

I haven't included insurance but will need to. I'll eat more than 50 weekly sometimes but that's understood too.
Berth and bottom clean is under and close enough with depending on volume slightly up or under also.

Pretty easy going though. Drifting instead of ploughing glass waters, reefing early instead of opening the throttle up, just learning balance too.

Figures at same cost as running a land home provided expectations of vessel are within limits of such.

Edit.. be careful though.. down here probably same. Best storms have a glass front. I'm figuring enjoying a full or 3/4 keeler and just settling in if caught out.

[Larry Florida]

Thinking of all the supplies, tools, spare parts, food etc etc seems a car and a land base will be required to get started. I don't think flying off to buy a first boat to live on is a good plan for most people. It may work for a person who needs no plan and somehow comes out ok. That type of person does not consider budgets 3 years in advance tho.

Also, forget the condo rental. Put your cash in a REIT fund until you're back on land. Similar returns to renting out a single unit with less hassel.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

To expand on this...NEVER make the mistake of having "friends" or "uncle Joe" manage a rental property for you (unless of course Uncle Joe is a semi-retired pro PM). In the end, they can cost you WAY more money than a good pro property management company. All they have to do is screw up handling one of many issuses (like: eviction, important repairs, etc) or get taken by a "professional tenant" (who shop for properties with amatuer PMs).

Ive made this mistake before. Using a good pro PM company makes a HUGE difference.

However, even with a great PM there are sometimes matters that will at least require your interaction with the PM (sometimes more if the SHTF).

Multifamily properties in general produce much more income per $ invested than single family. And they do so more reliably...a SF property is either 100% occuppied or 100% vacant, whereas a MF property may have a vacancy, but is still producing revenue.

If you want truly trouble free real estate based income then consider REITs or Private Equity...and leave all the hassles of ownership entirely in the hands of pros.

Even with a property manager...if you aren't already a landlord, the time to get into the business isn't as you are casing off the dock lines.

You can make nice money being a landlord but it also comes with risks and in many ways it's a job as much as an investment.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Even with a property manager...if you aren't already a landlord, the time to get into the business isn't as you are casing off the dock lines.



You can make nice money being a landlord but it also comes with risks and in many ways it's a job as much as an investment.

Agree, if you dont have experience with rental property dont try to buy and fly. Even with a good PM it is not entirely a hands-off investment.

[Scubableu]

Besides YachtWorld are there any other sources of sailboats for sale in Mexico?

[belizesailor]

Try local marinas and brokers. Central America is not a "wired" culture so there are often boats for sale locally which may not be posted on yacht for sale sites.

[Geoff S.]

Ahoy Which,

I'm surprised that nobody has yet wagged the old wag: "How much does it cost to cruise?" "How much do you have?" (Amount) "That much."

As snarky as that sounds, it really is true. If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way regardless of your purse. Over the years I have met some sea gypsies living in (to my mind) absolute squalor on death-wish boats for less than $100 per month, yet somehow getting from A to B...and on the other end of the spectrum gold-platers who are shelling out $7000+/month.

I can tell you're a thoughtful planner-type, which is a smart way to get into this lifestyle. Budgeting is hard and no fun and most people avoid the number crunching whenever possible, and when the unexpected happens it imperils their whole plan. All the advice above is excellent, particularly regarding the land-based condo scenario.

My own experience has taught me the hard way that the refit costs on an older fixer-upper can easily get way out of hand. I bought what I thought was the Deal of the Century (a 59 foot ketch for $10k), which turned into a 19-year gut-and-start-over money pit. A good part of that timeline was due to being an absentee owner hiring out much of the work, compounded by the Island Time work pace in Trinidad, compounded further by my own infernal perfectionism. As a hands-on DIYer you won't fall prey to that. I too am now in the process of retiring at 60, and rather than grieve over my lost time, blood and treasure, I'm concentrating on the bright side that my boat and systems are virtually brand-new. Still doesn't mean stuff won't go south, but I think at least I've exorcised all the old demons. So, to echo some sage advice already given, don't scrimp on a good surveyor. Don't fall in love and ignore said surveyor's warnings, be prepared to walk away and start over again and again until you find that solidly-built, well-kept, updated and pampered vessel that the owner has perhaps aged out of.

Here's a short list of worthy craft, per John Kretschmer second-hand reported by Darrell Nicholson of Practical Sailor: https://www.practical-sailor.com/blo...-the-high-seas. They're out there, it's still a buyer's market despite the recent knee-jerk pandemic spike.

I'm not familiar with the California/Mexico situation re used boats, but it's my notion that the southern Caribbean (Trinidad, Grenada) has a huge glut of boats sitting in yards. The last 18 months have only added to the inventory. Grenada is open for business, has been for the better part of a year, and Trinidad intends to reopen to vaccinated non-nationals in mid-late July. In order to DIY your situation, you'd need to relocate locally to where the boat is to get her ready for sea, but then you're an easy downwind sail to the entire Caribbean chain.

My dos centavos!
Cheers,
Geoff

[jrau18]

Originally Posted by WhichCoast

Ahoy!


Brief: Is $70k to get started and $3k per month enough to cruise the Caribbean?

Our purchase price was under 20k.

Our monthly budget was about 2k.

That was for two people. 36 foot almost 60 year old boat. I've known people who did it on less money. I have known many who did it on more money.

Your plan is very workable. I would suggest you live as cheap as you're comfortable with to keep as much cash in the bank as you can. That way when someday you go "oh crap, i need a whole new rig," you can swing it.

Also, do as much preventative maintenance yourself as possible, that saves money. Diesel engines aren't that difficult to do the preventative maintenance on, but it must be done or it will cost you. Of course, if your engine goes out, it can be ignored for a while, its a sailboat. We went 3 months and thousands of miles without our engine because we needed a transmission part and didn't want to wait in one place for it to ship in.

Focus on the necessities: keeping all safety equipment and basic seaworthiness of the boat in peak shape. All the extras are what costs money: watermakers, genset, dining out, a/c, etc. They cost up front money and they will cost money in maintenance and repairs. So choose wisely which you really want, and forgoe the rest.

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by WhichCoast

Brief: Is $70k to get started and $3k per month enough to cruise the Caribbean?

I'm 56 years old, penciling out a budget for a post-retirement cruise starting in 3-4 years. I want to be reasonable and say I'll commit to sailing for 1-2 years and then decide if I want to keep going or try something different. My health is good now but I'm aware that people age and have surprises so I want to do this immediately upon retirement when my chances of strength and health are greatest...

Is this budget reasonable? I realize most people posing questions like this probably never follow through so thank you for your indulgence.

I certainly hope so, because you are apparently dealing with a budget about twice mine (and you are nearly 20- years younger). Still your organization and analysis is reassuring. As they say, the proof is in the pudding -- so, once you have "the" boat in your sights, then you'll know how much it will need for your purposes -- some need little, some folks (or boats) need a lot, and I suppose some never have enough to fully commit...

You correctly note the health issue -- the clock is always ticking, and that can be a bigger motivator/hinderance than all the fun stuff. It sounds like you have a fair amount of confidence in the DIY world, so by the time you refit for cruising, I'd guess you'll know your boats capabilities.

As to keeping real-estate in your back-pocket in case it doesn't work out -- to each his own, but from what I read yours is the accepted scenario (I was in the real-estate industry -- both brokering and finance, but didn't even own a house until I was older than you... ). The biggest hurdle is probably to set aside the calculator and start prowling the boat brokerages, want-ads, whatever.

[Sofa King Fishy]

I’m 53 & a Live Aboard & I work for a rigging company. Your budget works for a small vessel 28-34’ assuming the previous owner has kept the boat up, but the upgrades will run a lot more than $25k. I’m on a 42’…
New sails: $8000
New Dodger/Bimini & enclosure: $9000
New Standing w/ roller furler: $10000
Bottom blast/epoxy: $3000
Whisker Pole for downwind: $2500
Water Maker: $4000
New Feeezer: $3000
Dinghy (AB 10.5’) $9000
$48,500 & still need a life raft!

[SlyMcFLy]

Hi from Bocas del Toro Panama. Your budget is almost exactly ours. We looked at boats in southern CA then drove to La Paz southetn Baja and bought a 1973 Formosa 41 there for $30 k. We sailed around the sea of cortez for a month then returned and installed autopilot, watermaker and SSB radio. Then we left for points south. That was 3 years ago. We live on about $4k per month for everything. In Panama pacific side we did a lot of work (new standing rigging, new rudder, new chainplates, new davits). We spend about $5 k per year on upgrades/ maintenance. We like tours and side trips for example we flew to Colombia.

This year we are replacing both original wood masts. Total cost for main and mizzen around $10k

You can do it. Not everything needs to be done in LA. Buy the boat in La Paz or San Carlos. Boat in MX transaction / escrow in Washington State. We used La Paz Yachts.