Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Actually there are a couple of pumpouts in Oriental, but as far as I know they are all fixed to the land and require the boat to come to them, they don't come to the boat. I guess the INS gave them a break. That takes care of their Visas, but the cruising permit is issued by the CG and has nothing to do with their imigration status. Has the county tax collector come to see them yet?

Guess who brought them out to the french boat

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

So the french boat is worth what, $5000. property tax would be oh $50 ish at a guess. Seems the tax man would spend more then that just creating an entry on the tax roll. Before the homestead exemption.

I'm pretty sure the county I pay taxes too lost money on me this year. After all the paperwork was done, appraisal (what type of boat was that again), and two phone calls from them, I'm betting the tax folks spent just about all of the $150 they got from me this year and then some.

As to the poop, maybe they did their thing on shore... Just a thought... Though I might be full of it too....

I would say even with the bad paint job it would be more in the 20 to 40,000 area that class of boats is a pretty good solid blue water design, and the hull is undamaged.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

So the french boat is worth what, $5000. property tax would be oh $50 ish at a guess. Seems the tax man would spend more then that just creating an entry on the tax roll. Before the homestead exemption.

I'm pretty sure the county I pay taxes too lost money on me this year. After all the paperwork was done, appraisal (what type of boat was that again), and two phone calls from them, I'm betting the tax folks spent just about all of the $150 they got from me this year and then some.

As to the poop, maybe they did their thing on shore... Just a thought... Though I might be full of it too....

The tax people in NC are nothing if not fair. Everyone pays the same tax rate. I have an old pickup truck and the tax last year was $7. I'm sure it costs the county more than that to print and send me the tax bill, track the property, and track my payment. This year it will be about $5 and change. In business we used to call sales like this toxic revenue. My son had a 25 year old Mercury Tracer valied at something like $150. You guessed it, he got a bill for $1.50. You would think that someone would have a high enough IQ to stop sending bills out and tracking property worth less than a certain amount, but the law's the law and fair is fair. It may also be stupid. By the way there is no such thing as a homestead exemption in NC.

To top this off, even though I haven't lived in NC for several years, today I got a notice that as of October 1, 2013 I will be required to register my federally documented boat in NC if it there more than 90 days. I guess they got my FL address form the coasties. I suspect they sent me this because my hailing port is in NC. I didn't change it when I moved to FL. Previously registering federally documented boats in NC was optional. I guess this is a new "no tax" from the new "no tax" legislature and governor. They use registration fees for small boats to fund things like boat ramps. Does this mean that NC wll start providing free travel lifts for documented boats? It sure looks like just another tax to me.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Actually, society is always changing, so the laws change to reflect the shifting social economical pressures. 200 years ago women who exposed an ankle were considered slutty. 2000 years ago women could be stoned to death for not being a virgin when married.. Gee 200 years ago slavery was legal. But times change, mostly for the better.

Of course even with the laws there is still sexual harassment, but that's besides the point.

In the current social economical situation, there are going to be anchor outs if for no other reason that it allows someone unemployed or on a small pension to live reasonably well and not live on a park bench or car as way too many people are doing nowadays. They are there, have been before and will be again.

Admiralty law says that the first vessel anchored in a location has the rights to that spot. Pretty much first come first served. Pretty much that way everywhere in the world, and been that way for a really long time.

When I anchor in Richardson bay it never crosses my mind that joe blow anchor out has the better spot. They are there first, so I accept it and anchor further out. No biggy or at least not worth worrying about.

Oriental took a small anchorage, allowed a marina to be built and shrank the anchoring space to a postage stamp size. Even if there were no anchor outs, its still too small for the amount of boats that would want to use it.

To me its a non issue. Does not matter if there are 3, 6 or no anchor outs the space available is just dinky. Not everyone will fit there no matter what.

Why even worry about it.

BTW I am an anchor out too, just a bit more mobile.. I prefer the term gypsy myself. But I do pay taxes to a county. Mind you its not very much money, But I do pay it gladly.

You danced around the question. Are you saying since 50 yrs ago it wasn't specifically illegal, it was OK to harass the secratary because it was a differnt time?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

Not really the ones that are rallying the troops to enact anchoring rules are the ones that use terms like real cruisers. It was a "real" cruiser that told the town it needs anchoring limits.
Limit Stays In Anchorage, A Way To Welcome More Boats | TownDock.net, Oriental NC
Town dock in their reply doesn't even read it's own letters. He said clearly that all 10 years he has been here there has always been long term boats in the harbor. But when the "real" cruiser ilk put that wall up what they do is divide the community. But what I love the "real" cruiser saying the most is "Every long term “floating house” or “convenient place to store my boat” you ask to relocate to one of the many viable anchorages nearby (but not walking distance to the restaurants and downtown businesses)",,,, What,,, Not within walking distance, If that's not saying go to the back of the bus in huge neon letters I don't know what is.

You don't get my point at all and I don't think any amount of explaining would get it thru to you.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You danced around the question. Are you saying since 50 yrs ago it wasn't specifically illegal, it was OK to harass the secratary because it was a differnt time?

Are you saying there were no harassment laws 50 years ago? Or are you saying that because in that culture that some forms of harassing a woman were not viewed as harassment that there were no laws governing it?

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You danced around the question. Are you saying since 50 yrs ago it wasn't specifically illegal, it was OK to harass the secratary because it was a differnt time?

Depends on if you asked a guy or a girl that question 50 years ago. Legal or not its still harassment. Least wise to me anyway.. Oddly enough 49 years ago it was illegal to harass at work.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Depends on if you asked a guy or a girl that question 50 years ago. Legal or not its still harassment. Least wise to me anyway.. Oddly enough 49 years ago it was illegal to harass at work.

So you are agreeing with me. Just because something is not specifically prohibited by law, it can be wrong to do that thing.

So, even if we buy his argument that it's technically not illegal to take up permanent residence in the harbor, it can be wrong for him to do it when it impacts others negatively. The question lies in how to balance the impacts to all the parties. When that individual fail to restrict unreasonable actions, laws are made to restrict those actions.

And it follows that those laws will be made by those who are an active part of the community. Right or wrong if you sit on your boat all passive/agressive waiting for them to come to you, the end result is very predictable and you have no one but yourself to blame.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

By the way there is no such thing as a homestead exemption in NC.

Actually there is a NC homestead exemption. Well they call it an homestead exclusion, but its the same thing. Only for folks 65 and older and the disabled. So GVH might be able to apply for it if he's a disabled vet. Only good for the first $25k or 50% of the value which ever it less.

But agree that there should be a bit more smarts in the collection of taxes so money collected creates a positive income to the states.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You don't get my point at all and I don't think any amount of explaining would get it thru to you.

You got that right because no matter how you explain it wrong is wrong. One side here has been mob mentality driven, and misstating the facts. That side has not been mine. You should say i should just cow-down to that side. You mean like the women were forced to 50 years ago in your example of sexual harassment? Nothing ever changes when people just blindly except a bully's demands, and things never get better when you let an unregulated mob take control of a situation. The laws for sexual harassment didn't change until a line in the sand was drawn. Well I drew that line when i first saw someone say I am not welcome and my home was "derelict" I said I am going to stay here untill someone asks me to leave. What i thought might take a week took 4 months. To be honest after reading some letters in reply on the local community events blog, they are just lucky i am not as bitter and petty as some of them are. Because the side you seem to be sticking up for as 'right' today when talking about me says "Irresponsible, self-absorbed behavior is the same whether you’re on a boat or on land. There will always be those people; sometimes its necessary for the community to remove them." Because that there sounds a lot like the same kind of argument some people tried when African Americans Wanted to go to a white school, and really goes against the foundation of the first Amendment.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

So you are agreeing with me. Just because something is not specifically prohibited by law, it can be wrong to do that thing.

So, even if we buy his argument that it's technically not illegal to take up permanent residence in the harbor, it can be wrong for him to do it when it impacts others negatively. The question lies in how to balance the impacts to all the parties. When that individual fail to restrict unreasonable actions, laws are made to restrict those actions.

And it follows that those laws will be made by those who are an active part of the community. Right or wrong if you sit on your boat all passive/agressive waiting for them to come to you, the end result is very predictable and you have no one but yourself to blame.

Ah, Boating and anchoring is governed by admiralty laws which oddly enough existing before the founding of the US. They were incorporated into US laws at the start of this country They were not written to protect the land owner or community, but to protect shipping.

So legally GVH is not breaking any laws. He is abiding/complying by admiralty law. The people breaking the current laws are the ones threatening, dare I say harassing, to have the CG chase him off for their own personal gain.

Now is it morally right to anchor or homestead on one spot for years on end. Probably need to ask the American Indians what they think. Life is not fair. Just because someone is richer then another does not mean that they are more deserving of an anchoring location.

There have always been anchor outs and most likely there always will be. They come they go. For the most part they are not hurting anything. Except for some folks self rightest indignation that is.

[krafthaus]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

Just a few thoughts at solutions as opposed to arguing.

Finally, an original and novel idea!

But then the thrill of debate would be lost, and with it, the entertainment.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by krafthaus

Finally, an original and novel idea!

But then the thrill of debate would be lost, and with it, the entertainment.

Slapping head to forehead.... I thought this was abuse. Now we want to get all high and mighty and have a debate do we... Said in my best John Cleese Voice. Which is not that good BTW....



...and now for something completely different:

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

If they are do not have work visas, doing paying work would get them deported , before their feet touched the ground.

what rules exactly, that the thing , they specifically haven't broken the rules or law enforcement would undoutably begin

Please allow me to invalidate what you have just written with actual fact...

1. I said barter with sweat equity. I did not say get paid. (related to this, if you are in NC, you might notice the thousands of Latin Americans in the construction industry - go watch a house being built sometime. Do ALL those guys have work visas? I bet 10% if INS enforced seriously in NC, new home starts would go bust!)

2. Rules. Shoplifting, vagrancy, and panhandling for starters. Tried and convicted. Not to mention their boat never has been seen pulling in for a pump out.

3. "before their feet touch the ground". Uh. You do realize we're talking about the government, right? Due process and all that? A slight reputation for inefficiency?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

It would seem that at the least they have overstayed their visas. I would suspect that they have or are about to have an issue with the boat's cruising permit. It was stated earlier that they entered the US in September of last year. It will be expiring soon if it hasn't yet depending on the actual day in Sept of 2012 that they got it. I bet they haven't listed their boat on the county tax rolls. They've stayed in the county more than six months so it's required. It does not matter where they are from, they still are required to pay County personal property taxes. Though I am a resident of the state of Florida I keep a car in Pamlico county because my kids still live in NC and when I come to visit them it's convienient to have a car. Though it is stored on rented space on private property I still have to pay county personal Pamlico County personal property tax on it every year.

They apparently do not have a composting head. The boat has not moved in 9 months. There is no pumpout boat in Oriental. Any guess where the black water is going? It may be passing through their holding tank, but 9 months...cut me a break. I have a 60 gallon tank and it lasts the two of us about 10 days. We may be unusually crappy, but it would seem to me that their tank would have to be about 1600 gallons to have lasted this long. Law enforcement, yeah right. Law enforcement tends to get involved in these kind of issues when they can make some money on the fine. Since the french have no money why should they bother. I would suspect that law enforcement agencies are also afraid the cost of deporting them will come out of their budget and in these days they don't want to take the chance.

Then Im sure the proper authorities will act appropriately, in the meantime its not for the "citizens" to assume anything or attempt to force things

dave