Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

[goboatingnow]

I see Godwins theory has been validated yet again

dave

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

O The two able bodied folks should long ago have bartered some sweat equity for their needed parts but they didn't.

There is that whole can't work in the US without a green card thingy. So they can't just get a job at wally world. No green card, no workie.. Thats how the US works. Well most places too.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Im not arguing for lenient action. Im not arguing for "fair". ( because in history "fair" is determined by the victors).

You either deal with this by rule of law , a law that acts impartially on all. or you put up and shut up. I mean you think the US is "fair", I would call it many things but not "fair" ( and many other societies too BTW).

Seeking some sort of common decency or so called "fairness" is entirely biased, It was once "fair" to deny certain sections of the population the vote, it was once "fair" to lock up certain consenting adults, it was once "fair" for the Anglican church to deny certain "pilgrims" their religious freedoms….etc , ad nauseum. thats why we instated a state of law, to set forth a reasonable set of limits to whats "fair"

dave

I see fairness and goodness everyday at the person to person level...sad that you don't know what it is..

you are often correct...but not even close on this one...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by psneeld

I see fairness and goodness everyday at the person to person level...sad that you don't know what it is..

you are often correct...but not even close on this one...

The fact that you may help me pick myself up of the street, or I open my car door for your wife etc, is not what is the kernel of the issue. I suspect that the inhabitants of Primadonna, do not think the world or society or anybody has been "fair" to them ( in general )

What you have here , is , in the absence of any laws to the contrary , is and attempt to vilify and therefore segregate a boat ( or boats but principally Primadonna) , merely because they are in effect view as "undesirables' by some.

Is that "fair" , is that " goodness" . no I don't think it is.

If they have broken the law, then prosecute them , if they have not leave them alone. You simply can't have it both ways. A society that acts based on "perceived decency" tends to persecute those that deviate from that "decency" and thats not a pretty sight.

A few years ago , it would have involved burning crosses, I am surprised you cannot see the bigger issue.

Perhaps the town needs to try and reach a compromise, maybe even talk to them about the issue, suggest reanchoring them , but primarily entering a dialogue. I don't mean charity, thats merely avoiding the issue and feeling good.

I mean read the TownDocks letters, I can see the "posse" already. Its not a pretty sight neither

Dave

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Tom.B

You have avoided so many direct questions that, while I would enjoy continuing this discussion, I think we all need to just let this go and we'll agree to disagree. You don't want to be reasonable about the subject of sharing community assets or just letting the community make its own rules about its own shoreline. Moreover, you falsely accuse a very fair publication of launching a smear effort and make up your own statistics about the town's tourism. I thank you for finally doing what some asked you nicely to do and hope you are learning that there are sometimes when doing what's right is the decent and communal thing to do, and you should sometimes do them without having to get your ego stroked. Pity.

Thanks for your time.

Sorry you feel that way. You mean decent and communal thing to do like politely asking someone to move? As for the inflammatory nature of how towndock has handled this. I just keep pointing out what they said then, what they say now now, and how the two are not the same. My message from day one has always been the same. I am not doing anything that has not lawfully been done before with no one caring. Now because they don't like a boat in the harbor I should forfeit my rights to be there, after what clearly has been a smear campaign. I am not the one printing letters asking people to use government agencies to harass, or saying we should use loud speakers to blast anyone out of anywhere. I will be moving as soon as the wind shifts so the tide is not so high under the bridge. Not because of the Cape dory "to someplace not within walking distance of the businesses" clown. But because after 4 months one of the people on the town board who I have known for a long time Asked me nicely to move in the fall snow bird season.

[Gadagirl]

I can somewhat sympathize with both sides here.


Knowing that if I am ever going to be able to cruise, it will involve long stays in a port where I can work to build up the kitty. That if I'm trying to save money, I would rather anchor than pay slip fees/mooring fees. Knowing that my home would have proper safety gear and be maintained. And also that I'd be a working (tax paying) member of the community for the duration of my stay. Spending my money, in said town, (as other boaters and land dwellers do) for my supplies. I'd hope to find anchorages and towns where I'd be welcome and not vilified.


If I lived in a town where I were perhaps a business owner, dependent on the tourist or marine industries, I'd want to attract the "high spenders". And let's face it, a tourist with a new boat, south bound, will spend more in one week provisioning, dining out, buying parts, souvenirs, etc. than a frugal live aboard saving for their next adventure. Truth of the matter though is if they have money, taking a slip for their duration is a drop in the pond to them.


I'm not familiar with Oriental. I looked at the sat. picture briefly and read this thread. So, if I understand correctly there is room for 6 at anchor and a couple of spots on the town dock? There are alternate anchorages but without access to dinghy docks making them less desirable? Although they are better protected and have better holding? I'd suggest building dinghy docks at the other anchorages. Perhaps " sister in-law Sue" can get a city contract on low cost mini-bus rides to town or "cousin Joe" can get a city contract on a low cost water taxi service. Job creation. Giving people alternate choices to stay in Oriental should be more a priority for those wishing to attract money. Six available anchor spots is not going to reap much. I'm sure dinghy docks/shore access would cost less than paying attorneys, lobbyists, and politicians. Just a few thoughts at solutions as opposed to arguing.

Feed back, cooperation, and brain storms could actually help everyone involved.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Actually it's all about realizing freakin' the basics of the world....

Whether you are right or wrong....it doesn't matter and it's better going with the flow...

While none of the anchored boats might be actually breaking a law...many of those agencies I actually do have some contact with could make life so miserable for those boaters that they might wish not only they weren't in Oriental but anywhere in the US.

It's simple.... enjoy...move along...that basic rule of decency is every place humans gather to enjoy the sights...for those that don't get it...expect the backlash...simple as that.

Ya and if caught abusing government resources like that you go to jail, and the person you harass gets most your stuff. But thank you for posting that info on a forum that logs your IP, from an ISP that logs your MAC address.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

I'm not familiar with Oriental. I looked at the sat. picture briefly and read this thread. So, if I understand correctly there is room for 6 at anchor and a couple of spots on the town dock? There are alternate anchorages but without access to dinghy docks making them less desirable? Although they are better protected and have better holding? I'd suggest building dinghy docks at the other anchorages. Perhaps " sister in-law Sue" can get a city contract on low cost mini-bus rides to town or "cousin Joe" can get a city contract on a low cost water taxi service. Job creation. Giving people alternate choices to stay in Oriental should be more a priority for those wishing to attract money. Six available anchor spots is not going to reap much. I'm sure dinghy docks/shore access would cost less than paying attorneys, lobbyists, and politicians. Just a few thoughts at solutions as opposed to arguing.

Feed back, cooperation, and brain storms could actually help everyone involved.

There is somewhere else to anchor the other side of the bridge but restricted by mast height... also there are various jetties etc where one can tie up one's dinghy... however it is a much longer walk into town and... and an even longer stagger back...
When I was there not lit so a torch was needed.. only exposed to the SE so not much wave action.. mind I was there for 2 winters to early summers so no knowledge of hurricane season but I imagine safer than the harbour anchorage...
Dunno what the OP's dinghy is but if its a hard one maybe its time to learn to scull... hell I know folk who do it in inflatables... great 1 handed skill..

[Gadagirl]

But see, if some enterprising town folk started a water taxi service would solve the trip to and fro issue

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

If they are do not have work visas, doing paying work would get them deported , before their feet touched the ground.

"French boat has broken the most rules."

what rules exactly, that the thing , they specifically haven't broken the rules or law enforcement would undoutably begin

"The frenzy starts with them"

what frenzy have they specifically started. the merely "by existing" one, it seems


Surely one of two things can be done ( a) Instigate some reasonable anchoring laws, (b) put up and shut up.

dave

It would seem that at the least they have overstayed their visas. I would suspect that they have or are about to have an issue with the boat's cruising permit. It was stated earlier that they entered the US in September of last year. It will be expiring soon if it hasn't yet depending on the actual day in Sept of 2012 that they got it. I bet they haven't listed their boat on the county tax rolls. They've stayed in the county more than six months so it's required. It does not matter where they are from, they still are required to pay County personal property taxes. Though I am a resident of the state of Florida I keep a car in Pamlico county because my kids still live in NC and when I come to visit them it's convienient to have a car. Though it is stored on rented space on private property I still have to pay county personal Pamlico County personal property tax on it every year.

They apparently do not have a composting head. The boat has not moved in 9 months. There is no pumpout boat in Oriental. Any guess where the black water is going? It may be passing through their holding tank, but 9 months...cut me a break. I have a 60 gallon tank and it lasts the two of us about 10 days. We may be unusually crappy, but it would seem to me that their tank would have to be about 1600 gallons to have lasted this long. Law enforcement, yeah right. Law enforcement tends to get involved in these kind of issues when they can make some money on the fine. Since the french have no money why should they bother. I would suspect that law enforcement agencies are also afraid the cost of deporting them will come out of their budget and in these days they don't want to take the chance.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

It would seem that at the least they have overstayed their visas. I would suspect that they have or are about to have an issue with the boat's cruising permit. It was stated earlier that they entered the US in September of last year. It will be expiring soon if it hasn't yet depending on the actual day in Sept of 2012 that they got it. I bet they haven't listed their boat on the county tax rolls. They've stayed in the county more than six months so it's required. It does not matter where they are from, they still are required to pay County personal property taxes. Though I am a resident of the state of Florida I keep a car in Pamlico county because my kids still live in NC and when I come to visit them it's convienient to have a car. Though it is stored on rented space on private property I still have to pay county personal Pamlico County personal property tax on it every year.

They apparently do not have a composting head. The boat has not moved in 9 months. There is no pumpout boat in Oriental. Any guess where the black water is going? It may be passing through their holding tank, but 9 months...cut me a break. I have a 60 gallon tank and it lasts the two of us about 10 days. We may be unusually crappy, but it would seem to me that their tank would have to be about 1600 gallons to have lasted this long. Law enforcement, yeah right. Law enforcement tends to get involved in these kind of issues when they can make some money on the fine. Since the french have no money why should they bother. I would suspect that law enforcement agencies are also afraid the cost of deporting them will come out of their budget and in these days they don't want to take the chance.

Bill there is one pump out but it's on the other side of the bridge. Clancy's has one. Last I checked Greg doesn't charge for pump out ether. Now with the the french boat, and their head. I know is they spend most of their time on the boat, there are two of them, and that is not a composting, or portable head,, so ya. But the crappy part of this story is INS was here a few days ago and gave the french another 90 days so who knows. Right now I am waiting for the wind to shift it's coming out of the north so the tide is high. I am hoping Thurs when the wind dies down a bit the water will drop and I will slip under the bridge.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

Bill there is one pump out but it's on the other side of the bridge. Clancy's has one. Last I checked Greg doesn't charge for pump out ether. Now with the the french boat, and their head. I know is they spend most of their time on the boat, there are two of them, and that is not a composting, or portable head,, so ya. But the crappy part of this story is INS was here a few days ago and gave the french another 90 days so who knows. Right now I am waiting for the wind to shift it's coming out of the north so the tide is high. I am hoping Thurs when the wind dies down a bit the water will drop and I will slip under the bridge.

Actually there are a couple of pumpouts in Oriental, but as far as I know they are all fixed to the land and require the boat to come to them, they don't come to the boat. I guess the INS gave them a break. That takes care of their Visas, but the cruising permit is issued by the CG and has nothing to do with their imigration status. Has the county tax collector come to see them yet?

[sailorchic34]

So the french boat is worth what, $5000. property tax would be oh $50 ish at a guess. Seems the tax man would spend more then that just creating an entry on the tax roll. Before the homestead exemption.

I'm pretty sure the county I pay taxes too lost money on me this year. After all the paperwork was done, appraisal (what type of boat was that again), and two phone calls from them, I'm betting the tax folks spent just about all of the $150 they got from me this year and then some.

As to the poop, maybe they did their thing on shore... Just a thought... Though I might be full of it too....

[Gadagirl]

And yet another opportunity for an enterprising city government or individual to reap income. A pump out boat to visit the boats in the anchorages.

Can we get creative yet?

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

And yet another opportunity for an enterprising city government or individual to reap income. A pump out boat to visit the boats in the anchorages.

Can we get creative yet?

Hum a combo water taxi / pump out boat. They get you going and coming.

what too creative?