Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

[jibstay]

https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler...atened-florida

[dwedeking2]

Seems the solution is for St. Brendan's Isle to move to a different county. While I'm sure it will be a disturbance to them and their clients it will probably be easier than bucking city hall.



Doesn't seem to be a system wide review at this time, just a local small fish bureaucrat feeling empowered.

[valhalla360]

While I understand the concern, really should they be voting in local elections if they don't live there...never have lived there and have no intention of ever living there? If I was a "real" resident of the area, I'd be annoyed that people with no attachment to my community was voting on community candidates and issues.

Check out below for a possible solution that allows you to participate in federal elections:

https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...ad/voting.html

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

Doesn't seem to be a system wide review at this time, just a local small fish bureaucrat feeling empowered.

Probably more an issue of one company concentrating the problem in a single small community and having a significant impact on the election results.

If you have a dozen cruisers in each city/township across the state doing this, it's unlikely to skew the elections as the numbers are simply too small (not that it's right just too small of a problem to bother fixing). But if the local community is 10,000 and 3,000 really aren't residents, they can definitely skew the results against what the community wants.

[john61ct]

South Dakota has similar issues

[laika]

Do users of the St. Brendan's service pay in any kind of local taxes?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by laika

Do users of the St. Brendan's service pay in any kind of local taxes?

These services tend to be in areas where there is no income tax and obviously, they won't pay property tax on a house and usually they register the boat in another state to avoid personal property tax on the boat...so in general, no they don't pay local taxes.

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

These services tend to be in areas where there is no income tax and obviously, they won't pay property tax on a house and usually they register the boat in another state to avoid personal property tax on the boat...so in general, no they don't pay local taxes.

Kind of like people who rent their home instead of buying? We have our mailing address at SBI but we pay state tax on our boat and our cars we registered in Clay County.

[Larry Florida]

Can't see cruisers caring much about voting in a community they are only connected to a mailbox.

[sailpower]

“To establish legal residence, a person must have a ‘good faith intention’ to reside in a particular place, coupled with ‘positive overt acts’ that demonstrate that intention…. Such ‘overt acts’ could include the person buying a home in the county, applying for homestead in the county, registering his or her vehicle in the county, receiving mail at an address in the county, or undertaking any other activity normally associated with home life."

Seems that they are saying that using SBI is consistent with the overt acts but does not demonstrate a good faith intention to reside in a particular place i.e. Clay County.

Most people, if they were honest about it, would probably admit that is the case.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Larry Florida

Can't see cruisers caring much about voting in a community they are only connected to a mailbox.

Agreed, but if the community leans towards Party A but the cruising community leans strongly Party B and tends to vote party lines...the community can wind up with officials who do not represent the residents.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

These services tend to be in areas where there is no income tax and obviously, they won't pay property tax on a house and usually they register the boat in another state to avoid personal property tax on the boat...so in general, no they don't pay local taxes.

What personal property taxes would that be? I've lived in Fla since 1992 and have never been charged a personal property tax on our boat. The only charges we have had have been for the State Vessel Registration which is nothing by comparison with what we paid in California.

The only issue I can see with this dust-up is with regard to national elections. The Registrar could disallow voting in local elections but still permit absentee ballots for national elections which I believe should be permitted for every US citizen regardless of where situated, no?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Kind of like people who rent their home instead of buying?

No, if you rent, the property tax is built into your rent. If you had a slip inside the community, the property tax on the marina would be analogous. You might register a car & boat in the state but a lot of people using these services don't spend any time in Florida and have no connection beyond the mail forwarding services and a drivers license.

And it's not just the tax...even if you are homeless but live in the town, that person has a much stronger claim to being a resident.

Nothing wrong with using these services but letting people vote in local elections based in it just seems wrong.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

What personal property taxes would that be? I've lived in Fla since 1992 and have never been charged a personal property tax on our boat. The only charges we have had have been for the State Vessel Registration which is nothing by comparison with what we paid in California.

The only issue I can see with this dust-up is with regard to national elections. The Registrar could disallow voting in local elections but still permit absentee ballots for national elections which I believe should be permitted for every US citizen regardless of where situated, no?

That's the point. They don't live in the community, they don't pay local taxes, most have no connection other than a means to get a state drivers license (which I don't see as a problem if the state accepts it) but they are taking local voting rights that they really don't have justification to take.

As linked in a prior post, there is a mechanism for "stateless" citizens to vote in national elections, so no one is taking away that right.

[john61ct]

I agree there should be such a mechanism, in cases where these services numbers are high vs local population.

But there should be pretty stringent test, absentee voters in the 99.9999% of districts where this is not the case should remain empowered to vote locally even if they've been living overseas for decades.

Personally I think citizens should be required to vote.