If you could establish residency anywhere....

[lift]

This is a combo finance, passport, health insurance question.

We've been looking at the intersection of financial independence and cruising as a very probable path in our next 5-10 years.

Trying to leverage the brain trust since I'm sure someone else has already thought through it.

If you could establish residency in any county or combination of countries, what would it be? (We are currently US residents).

Ideal traits:

• cheap or free healthcare that would also cover us abroad

• powerful passport for cruising style travel

• ease of establishing residency

• favorable tax law for someone with a nigh net worth but low "income"

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by lift

This is a combo finance, passport, health insurance question.

We've been looking at the intersection of financial independence and cruising as a very probable path in our next 5-10 years.

Trying to leverage the brain trust since I'm sure someone else has already thought through it.

If you could establish residency in any county or combination of countries, what would it be? (We are currently US residents).

Ideal traits:

• cheap or free healthcare that would also cover us abroad

• powerful passport for cruising style travel

• ease of establishing residency

• favorable tax law for someone with a nigh net worth but low "income"

I’ve done this twice with varying degrees of success. Malaysia is worth considering , I worked and lived there for 20 years, (technically I still do) if you want to work, you’ll need an employment pass, if you just want to reside , you can apply for “Malaysia my second home” which requires a refundable monetary deposit, you can read about it online but be aware that this is a largely Muslim country and there’s a certain degree of re adjustment to blend into the community, the Muslim daily “call to prayer “ some folks find intrusive and in some places the sermons are broadcast as well…. All perfectly normal for the Islamic population.
Then I tried France, got Brit documentation so all good with EU… bought an apartment and a yacht but then Brexit happened and I only got 90 day visas…. 90 in and 90 out , still manageable, I had a current employment pass in Malaysia so 90 days in Langkawi and 90 in France worked until Covid and that’s when the wheels fell off completely. Travel restrictions and a rapid rise in airfares resulted in me going back to Australia.
In Malaysia I had access to good medical and dental services at very good prices
In France I think only emergency medical is available… I never needed to access the system but in a crisis , could have gone to UK.
I know expats who live in Thailand successfully. Excellent medical and dental but it never appealed to me to actually live there.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by lift

This is a combo finance, passport, health insurance question.

We've been looking at the intersection of financial independence and cruising as a very probable path in our next 5-10 years.

Trying to leverage the brain trust since I'm sure someone else has already thought through it.

If you could establish residency in any county or combination of countries, what would it be? (We are currently US residents).

Ideal traits:

• cheap or free healthcare that would also cover us abroad

• powerful passport for cruising style travel

• ease of establishing residency

• favorable tax law for someone with a nigh net worth but low "income"

Residency by itself doesn't give you a passport quickly in almost all countries.

Are you looking for a residency permit, or a passport? If passport, Antiguq & Barbuda have an excellent program based on investment, which requires only a modest investment in real estate. You get a passport quickly. The passport is a very good one with visa free travel to most countries (including Europe). Tax laws are very good.

If residency, there are lots of choices. Most European countries allow you to get a long term residency permit based on wanting to be in that country to facilitate investment activities or some kind of business. And Schengen is a wide area. You pay tax on capital income you take but it's reasonable in most cases and you can offset against your U.S. taxes. Check out Estonia just as one example, which has a fully digitized government (world leader in this) which is super easy to deal with, plus a fantastic place to live.

SE Asia is different again. Retirement visas really easy to get in Thailand and probably in some other places, and what's cool about most of these countries is that even if you are a tax resident, you don't pay tax on anything you earn outside of the country unless you "repatriate" the profits by bringing into a bank account in that country.

If I could choose anywhere, I would choose where I want to cruise. I greatly prefer Europe to SE Asia (and to the Caribbean) for that, but that's purely a matter of taste.


What concerns health care -- you don't want to rely on the free system anywhere. Even in Scandinavia you want private health insurance. If you're an American you will be amazed at how much cheaper and easier private health services are in almost the whole rest of the world compared to home, for quality which is equal to much better. Many SE Asian countries have excellent health systems. Europe it goes without saying, but the free system usually means standing in lines. If you are "high net worth" then definitely get private health insurance. A really deluxe plan only costs $1000 a month or less in most places.

[Montanan]

Recommend that one reside where you would like to be most.

Don't make life choice around taxation and passport naturalization factors.

Let your emotion choose for you and use less analytical decision.

This is kind of like picking who your spouse / life partner is.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Don't make life choice around taxation and passport naturalization factors.

OP, Montanan makes an excellent point.
You said you were a "resident" of the US, that's not the same as being able to hold a US passport.
One of my brothers spent ~20 years living/working in a couple different Asian countries.
No matter how good the life there was, he always knew he could show the blue passport and "go back home".

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Recommend that one reside where you would like to be most.

Don't make life choice around taxation and passport naturalization factors.

Let your emotion choose for you and use less analytical decision.

This is kind of like picking who your spouse / life partner is.

If you use your emotion only, and choose a place you can't get a residence permit, and/or where you will be taxed to death, or where quality health care is unavailable, you might really deeply regret it.

It would be like using your emotion only and choosing a wife without considering anything else, and choosing one who is an alcoholic and/or a sex addict or who hates children.

Plenty of choices of women who are emotionally attractive and yet are OK on other more practical counts, and it's the same with countries.

[lift]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

OP, Montanan makes an excellent point.
You said you were a "resident" of the US, that's not the same as being able to hold a US passport.
One of my brothers spent ~20 years living/working in a couple different Asian countries.
No matter how good the life there was, he always knew he could show the blue passport and "go back home".

Ok fair enough. I'm a US resident who holds a US passport but has no emotional connection to the US. I do current have a job that requires me to maintain my citizenship but i expect to retire from that in the next 5-10 yrs.

Thanks for the input!

[lift]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Recommend that one reside where you would like to be most.

Don't make life choice around taxation and passport naturalization factors.

Let your emotion choose for you and use less analytical decision.

This is kind of like picking who your spouse / life partner is.

Just want to say that ironically, I'm in Montana.

I'm absolutely going to make a choice based on the benefits of that location.

For me, tax benefits = less money required to retire = more time spent with my family.

Time is the only resource that isn't renewable.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

snip....

What concerns health care -- you don't want to rely on the free system anywhere. Even in Scandinavia you want private health insurance. If you're an American you will be amazed at how much cheaper and easier private health services are in almost the whole rest of the world compared to home, for quality which is equal to much better. Many SE Asian countries have excellent health systems. Europe it goes without saying, but the free system usually means standing in lines. If you are "high net worth" then definitely get private health insurance. A really deluxe plan only costs $1000 a month or less in most places.

Golly, I'm paying ( for a couple) $US3400 a year for top private cover in Australia and most years get my money back. Last year was a spell in hospital after a run in with a big bovine.

Re the OP's comment about asset rich but low income. Before he gets on a boat to Australia most benefits including the age pension are means tested and this means test includes pretty much all your assets - even the family home if you spend too much time O/S.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Golly, I'm paying ( for a couple) $US3400 a year for top private cover in Australia and most years get my money back. Last year was a spell in hospital after a run in with a big bovine.

Re the OP's comment about asset rich but low income. Before he gets on a boat to Australia most benefits including the age pension are means tested and this means test includes pretty much all your assets - even the family home if you spend too much time O/S.

That's really cheap health care!! That will be very attractive to many retirees.



OZ is supposed to be a great cruising destination, so might be a good choice for the OP. The income taxes are not ridiculous by standards of advanced countries but he might have a problem with the capital gains tax, if he is living on capital income. Also dividend income is taxed at ordinary income tax rates, which is unfavorable compared to Scandinavia where capital income is subject to lower rates than ordinary income.

[Tin Tin]

I hear Panama is good for US retirees. When I was in Annapolis seeing a doctor he was pulling up stumps and heading there and so too was the other doctor in that practice - said they had researched it in depth - that is all the evidence I have apart from Google.

[Kettlewell]

My two cents is if I had the money and assets to live anywhere in the world I would choose to live where I most wanted to live in terms of lifestyle, family, friends, things I like to do, etc. I've met some well-off expats who seemed to be perpetually worried about the duration of their visas, when they were going to have to move their boat out of the country, where they could go next, how to fly half way around the world to see the children without visa problems, how to get home for some medical need that couldn't be taken care of where they were, etc. Who needs all that hassle in your life, particularly if you could live anywhere you really wanted to live?

[MicHughV]

Speaking from experience...the quickest way to become a citizen of another country is to marry a girl from that country. Doesn't happen right away off course, but it is the starting point. My parents were also born in another country from my birth, which gave me access to their citizenship rights. My grand parents, in turn, also came from elsewhere.
One could say I'm a man of the world, but the reality is that I really only travel with one passport

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

My two cents is if I had the money and assets to live anywhere in the world I would choose to live where I most wanted to live in terms of lifestyle, family, friends, things I like to do, etc. I've met some well-off expats who seemed to be perpetually worried about the duration of their visas, when they were going to have to move their boat out of the country, where they could go next, how to fly half way around the world to see the children without visa problems, how to get home for some medical need that couldn't be taken care of where they were, etc. Who needs all that hassle in your life, particularly if you could live anywhere you really wanted to live?

Well, I think that's exactly what the OP was asking about. You want to choose a place where you can get a residence permit, get medical care, pay taxes, in order to avoid all that.

[hpeer]

To OP the answer may be USA depending upon your age and desires. Some states do not tax Social Security; Texas, Florida, PA, and others. You HAVE a powerful passport.

I am dual US/Canadian. Wife is born German but Naturalized US, had to renounce German citizenship (1970’s). I have never worked in Canada and do not have a tax account so that Citizenship brings zero benefits beyond a second passport and extended stays. We split our time between East Caribbean and Canada and enough time in US to meet state residence requirements.

For a while we had international health insurance but a couple of years ago the cost went up astronomically. By now we have Medicare within the USA so we now carry emergency repatriation insurance, if hospitalized they will transport you back to the hospital of your choice in the US.

Our difficulty is finding ONE place where we want to be. Nowhere fits our desires, I guess we are just spoiled. The East Caribbean is pretty good because there is a variety of development and culture. Newfoundland is good in summer for family and nature and climate and a very different culture. The USA? We have kids there, and health insurance, and it has good health care, but the culture will kill ya’.

Our “plan” is to do what we are doing until we can’t. Maybe head back to the Bahamas for a bit then float around the Chesapeake and NC sounds until we can't. Then?

We are all one event away from something that will make up our minds for us. Heart attack, cancer, stroke, car accident, fall, whatever. Planning is a optimistic event, assuming nothing bad will happen. But, we know many who plan to live near a hospital so when they get sick it will be there. Somehow I find that contrary to my logic, planning to go to a hospital sounds like planning to be sick. I get the logic I suppose. But we would rather plan to live. I believe that planning to live is the best way to avoid a hospital.