Homeland Security

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by johnar

It all scares me to death, Reminds me of Hitler and germany. I could have this in the wrong order but from what i remember first there was the SA the they made the group SS and we all know what they did.

I just dont understand why we need to have HLS when we already have Coast Gaurd, FBI, CIA Boarder cops.

They should just give more funds to the right people to protect us.

And when i think about the state of Ca. Taxing pot so they can make money off it, but just a few years ago they looked people up for it

Well, do something about it. Write your Congressman and be careful how you vote. Don't assume that Democrats care more about your personal freedom than Republicans do. Libertarians are your only reliable allies in this sort of thing.

Meanwhile don't bring it on board. There is much greater risk of being searched on the water than there is at home, and the consequences can be much graver. If you don't want to give up smoking pot (and giving it up IS the right choice), then maybe move somewhere where it is legal or at least tolerated.

[Cheechako]

The bottom line is that Osama Bin Laden won thanks to our own stupid government. Our paranoid McCarthy style administration took it's own citizens rights away (further) which must have given Osama a lot of pleasure. Did you ever notice that the very guys who used to get in fights at the local teen dances and at school are the guys who became sherrif deputies or cops? Have you noticed that Law Enforcement has discovered the "taser" and they are having all kinds of fun tasering women in their 70's who were stopped for a traffic ticket etc? (do a web search on taser incidents... I lost the link) There seems to be little control over what they do... I'm sorry , I'm a little pessimistic about this, but I can only go by what I see with my eyes. My Grandfather was a career cop, my dad was a cop and my step brother was a cop. I have had Deputy Sherrif's show me the dope stach they carry to plant on a person of interest. I have been to a lot of other countries, I've never been a place where law enforcement is so "in your face" as the US. You will find your local agency has 100's of outstanding warrants, but they dont go knock on the door where the person lives! There is no money in prosecution and incarceration. There is money in DUI's and traffic tickets. If Homeland Securtiy wants to really protect us they need to get some gloves on and start opening every container coming into the US and physically inspecting every ship of size.... oh... that would be work not fun like harrassing people sleeping in their boats....

[GordMay]

Top 7 'Shocking' Taser Incidents
Grandma, Pregnant Woman, University Student All Felled by Taser-Wielding Cops
➥ Shocking Police Taser Incidents - ABC News


Taser-related deaths top 100
“Non-lethal” weaponry in action – the bodies are piling up. Amnesty International reports (in 2005) 103 Taser-related deaths in the US and Canada since 2001.
➥ Taser-related deaths top 100

[captain58sailin]

I agree with Dockhead, if you truly want to change the status quo then you have to get involved. The cynic in me despairs that no matter what system that is in place there will be abuses of power. As long as there are 3 people on the planet and one has something the other two want, there is the chance for corruption. Someone once postulated that human beings were not designed to live in big populations, that small villages were the only intelligent working model. Trying to make the rules for a large country is inherently corrupt and invasive. Perhaps if we relegated the US federal govt. to making trade treaties with other countries and using a national standing military force for invasion prevention only. We could keep the other laws and law enforcement on a local level where the grass roots has a chance of keeping control. How ever I have run across plenty of local "Bubba" cops with interesting notions about law enforcement and constitutional rights. I guess we could all go back to the tribal model and then one could only make rules that the whole tribe agreed with and the rules only extend to the members of that tribe. It truly is a quandary of the human condition.

[David M]

Technology is at the point now where we could have a direct democracy as opposed to what we have now, a representative democracy. We could effectively bypass what politicians want for us and decide for ourselves.

[GordMay]

Let me go way out on a limb, and predict that”
The War on Terrorism will be every bit as successful as were the War on Alcohol (prohibition), & The War on Drugs.

Lord save our saviours:
The latest results of a Justice Department audit reveal that FBI wiretaps–including one involving a suspected terrorists were cut off because the agency failed to pay its phone bills on time:

The faulty bookkeeping is part of what the audit, by the Justice Department’s inspector general, described as the FBI’s lax oversight of money used in undercover investigations. Poor supervision of the program also allowed one agent to steal $25,000, the audit said.

More than half of 990 bills to pay for telecommunication surveillance in five unidentified FBI field offices were not paid on time, the report shows. In one office alone, unpaid costs for wiretaps from one phone company totaled $66,000.

And at least once, a wiretap used in a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act investigation — the highly secretive and sensitive cases that allow eavesdropping on suspected terrorists or spies — “was halted due to untimely payment.”

Goto ➥ OIG Audit Report 08-03

***

An American travelling abroad was asked about life in the U.S. after September 11 and the resulting Homeland Security measures. "How do you deal with terrorist threats?"

"Today's terrorists just won't negotiate. Basically, you have to give them what they want. You wait in line forever, let them invade your privacy as much as they like, and hope they let you go on your way instead of throwing you in jail for carrying a toothpick or something."

***

George W. Bush was bragging to Russian President Putin. "Our Homeland Security measures have been so effective that we are now terrorist-free!"

"Come, now, George," Putin laughed. "Surely you exaggerate!"

"No, not at all. I'll tell you what. The first three terrorists you see, you can shoot them yourself, and you can have my job to boot!"

The very next day on his way to fly home, Putin spotted four men holding a group of people at gunpoint, taking their belongings, making dire threats to all who offered resistance. The Russian president quickly put a stop to it as Bush had suggested.

The headline for the morning's Washington Post read, "Slavic Man Claims He's President, Shoots Four FAA Security Guards."

[captain58sailin]

Gord,
I believe you are right about the war on terrorism. What we have is a war on civil rights. I also agree that we have the tech. to have a direct democracy, we will still be saddled with the petty bureaucrats that would be used to implement our democracy. Has any of you read "Stranger in a Strange Land"? I am amazed at how insightful Robert Heinlein was, he wrote that book in the 60s.
My Great Grandmother used to say "I don't vote, it just encourages them."

[anotherT34C]

Direct democracy may seem like a good idea, but I doubt reality would come anywhere near the hopes. I refer to the fine job Cali's ballot initiatives have done with the state's economy. To paraphrase John Oliver: "Californians want to be Europe, but without the high taxes or the bad teeth".

[captain58sailin]

California got the democracy they voted for. Now the rest of us are expected to foot the bill for their bad planning. Just like we did with the corporate bail outs. I will bet a doughnut that Cali comes whining to the feds for help.

[anotherT34C]

To be fair, despite Cali's budget issues, they still have (by far) the largest positive balance of payments to the federal government of any state.

Letting Cali keep more of her own money would go a long way to helping her budget issues...

[Cheechako]

The sad part about this is that many of the younger people I know just dont get the "freedom and liberty " thing. They dont know how many of their basic rights have been/are gradually being taken away. Some people like to be dictated what color to paint their house I guess... just be careful you dont leave the kids toys out in the yard for more than the day or you'll get a notice to clean up...Of course if the world doesn't curb population growth then the only viable government will be a communal social government with the interest of the clamoring masses.... Quantity over Quality....

[svHyLyte]

Letting Cali keep more of her own money would go a long way to helping her budget issues...

Letting all of us keep more of our own money would go a long way to allowing all of us to help our own budget issues. But then of course, those that don't/won't work might have to; and, those that don't pay taxes would have to be ineligable for "refundable tax credits"; and, those that like givng our money away to those that don't/won't work and don't pay taxes to ensure their own reelection might be turned out of office, eh?

[TaoJones]

Sorry, folks, but this thread has strayed wa-a-a-a-a-y too far off course to still be considered a sailing and cruising thread. You've all had a lot of informative things to add to the thread, but not much has to do with our focus here - boats, boating, boats and boating, boating and boats.

You get the idea. Thanks for participating, but this thread is well-past its use-by date.

Thread Closed.

TaoJones