Help 100 Live Aboard Sailors Keep Their Homes By Offering Feedback on Mooring Field

[CanuckSailorguy]

I'm not new to CF. I've been a member off and on since 2011. I don't enjoy this forum, largely because of the attitudes of a great many people here.
The 45 day rule pertains to an Anchoring Limitation Area imposed by the county. That is not the case here, so your question is irrelevant.
Secondly, almost all of the people living aboard - about 80, the rest of the boats are wet stored as there's no dockage anywhere available on Biscayne Bay - all but a few of those people have jobs in Miami Beach. One, now moved on, was a veterinarian with a clinic close to the water. A couple of others are delivery captains. Several work in offices downtown.
One owns a construction firm. A very few are retired.
See how your biases lead you astray? You assume, and then jump to the most derogatory assumption you can make about who these people are.
fyi, the liveaboards used another dock on Collins Canal, not the one you're referring to, which inconvenienced no one. The city tore that dock out one night at 11 pm, with the commissioner saying on tv that he did it to drive the boaters out, that he wanted to "remove their lifeline", that he would force them "to act illegally" to go for groceries, water, their jobs, medical appointments, etc.
I figure he's the kind of guy you'd really like. Mean, nasty, evil spirited.
Had his guns and concealed carry permit taken away by the courts because his ex wife feared for their children. Arrested for burglary as a 19 year old. Currently being investigated by police for harassing the boaters, in part by flying a drone a few feet away from their boats.
Yea, he's your kind of guy allright.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

So if the 157 boats are such avid boaters and sailors, why are y'all so pissed about rules requiring you to move a boat a mile every 45 days? 10 years ago Miami Beach built a dinghy dock to attract cruisers. Instead, it attracted livesaboards who can't move their boats and crowded out legitimate cruisers. Don't get pissed when you don't get sympathy from folks who cannot use a very convenient dock because a few folks took advantage and made a nuisance.

I see you're new to CF and have only posted on this topic. Guessing from your handle you're Canadian?

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by CanuckSailorguy

I'm not new to CF. I've been a member off and on since 2011. I don't enjoy this forum, largely because of the attitudes of a great many people here.
The 45 day rule pertains to an Anchoring Limitation Area imposed by the county. That is not the case here, so your question is irrelevant.
Secondly, almost all of the people living aboard - about 80, the rest of the boats are wet stored as there's no dockage anywhere available on Biscayne Bay - all but a few of those people have jobs in Miami Beach. One, now moved on, was a veterinarian with a clinic close to the water. A couple of others are delivery captains. Several work in offices downtown.
One owns a construction firm. A very few are retired.
See how your biases lead you astray? You assume, and then jump to the most derogatory assumption you can make about who these people are.
fyi, the liveaboards used another dock on Collins Canal, not the one you're referring to, which inconvenienced no one. The city tore that dock out one night at 11 pm, with the commissioner saying on tv that he did it to drive the boaters out, that he wanted to "remove their lifeline", that he would force them "to act illegally" to go for groceries, water, their jobs, medical appointments, etc.
I figure he's the kind of guy you'd really like. Mean, nasty, evil spirited.
Had his guns and concealed carry permit taken away by the courts because his ex wife feared for their children. Arrested for burglary as a 19 year old. Currently being investigated by police for harassing the boaters, in part by flying a drone a few feet away from their boats.
Yea, he's your kind of guy allright.

You know what's ironic? The person who started this thread came here seeking sympathy. As if a site for active cruisers - CruisersForum - shared DNA with a bunch of long term anchor outs and derelict boats who were upset because they had to move their boat 1 mile ever 45 days.

The OP challenged the forum to write to the Mayor and Councilmen of Miami Beach to register their outrage. Never occured to the OP that they were perceived as squatters on public waterways, and that active cruisers get pissed when anchorages are clogged with bearded boats that haven't moved in months/years. If you were a true cruiser, you'd know that.

The OP conveniently gave the email addresses of the mayor and councilmen. So I wrote them - and registered my support of their efforts and sent the link to this thread and others where cruisers expressed their disappointment with anchor outs.

You can make all the ad hominem and personal attacks you want. It sounds petty and petulant and you're not helping your cause. You've overstayed your welcome in Miami Beach. If you were a true cruiser, you'd set sail for fairer destinations. You'd want to be an example of how cruisers are respectful and tread lightly.

[CanuckSailorguy]

First of all, I am not the OP of the post you're referring to. I haven't asked anyone to write to the mayor in my post. I have spoken with him directly when it was required. Pay attention.
Secondly, you refer to moving the boat one mile - that's in reference to anchoring limitation areas, not what we're discussing at all. As I said, pay attention. You might learn something, although since you seem to believe you know it all, probably not.
I've not overstayed my welcome in Miami Beach, I am not in Miami Beach at all. Haven't anchored there in years in fact, and I'll be on my way further down the Keys tomorrow.
And as for being a "true cruiser", I likely put a lot more miles on my boat and go a lot more places than you do - Cuba, three trips to the Bahamas, Canada once, both Florida coasts twice, the entire east coast every year. All of that in the past four years.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

You know what's ironic? The person who started this thread came here seeking sympathy. As if a site for active cruisers - CruisersForum - shared DNA with a bunch of long term anchor outs and derelict boats who were upset because they had to move their boat 1 mile ever 45 days.

The OP challenged the forum to write to the Mayor and Councilmen of Miami Beach to register their outrage. Never occured to the OP that they were perceived as squatters on public waterways, and that active cruisers get pissed when anchorages are clogged with bearded boats that haven't moved in months/years. If you were a true cruiser, you'd know that.

The OP conveniently gave the email addresses of the mayor and councilmen. So I wrote them - and registered my support of their efforts and sent the link to this thread and others where cruisers expressed their disappointment with anchor outs.

You can make all the ad hominem and personal attacks you want. It sounds petty and petulant and you're not helping your cause. You've overstayed your welcome in Miami Beach. If you were a true cruiser, you'd set sail for fairer destinations. You'd want to be an example of how cruisers are respectful and tread lightly.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by CanuckSailorguy

First of all, I am not the OP of the post you're referring to. I haven't asked anyone to write to the mayor in my post. I have spoken with him directly when it was required. Pay attention.
Secondly, you refer to moving the boat one mile - that's in reference to anchoring limitation areas, not what we're discussing at all. As I said, pay attention. You might learn something, although since you seem to believe you know it all, probably not.
I've not overstayed my welcome in Miami Beach, I am not in Miami Beach at all. Haven't anchored there in years in fact, and I'll be on my way further down the Keys tomorrow.
And as for being a "true cruiser", I likely put a lot more miles on my boat and go a lot more places than you do - Cuba, three trips to the Bahamas, Canada once, both Florida coasts twice, the entire east coast every year. All of that in the past four years.

Before you hurl insults about reading comprehension, you might want to re-read my post because you missed some important adjectives and pronouns in your haste to be such a learned and snarky writer. I didn't say you were the OP. It's okay, no apology needed - but do try to follow along before you get nasty. It's not becoming to such an esteemed person. Canadians have better reputations than that even when they're writing about Miami Beach regulations.

So you're big on credentials. Me? Currently in Pacific Costa Rica on a lazy delivery from California to Florida so going through the Panama Canal (again) in a few months. I spent 5-years as fulltime delivery skipper out of San Francisco who delivered mostly between Alaska and Mexico with an occasional trip to Florida. Averaged about 220 days per year underway. And I'm now a resident of Florida - have been for almost 20 years. Have been on much of the states waterways including the Miami Beach area.

And a past writer with a regular bi-monthly column in a World Publication glossy magazine. And that's just the tip of my boating resume.

So puleeeze, stop with the chest thumping, okay?

Good luck with your cause. I think you're barking up the wrong tree. But keep at it - you're sealing the deal for the removal of the anchor outs/squatters/whatever.

[CanuckSailorguy]

You said - "The person who started this thread came here seeking sympathy."
Well, since this is my thread and that's not what I did, I'd say you got it wrong. But hey, you being such a big time delivery skipper, what do I know?
The law in Florida is clearly on the side of the people anchored out. There's no question about that, and a House Representative confirmed that to me.
Here's the problem - if Miami Beach pulls this off, it will be about two heartbeats later that every city with boats anchored out attempts to do the same thing, ultimately ruining cruising in Florida for everyone.
There are solutions to the problems, but what MB is doing isn't a solution. In fact, right now the USCG is investigating what they're doing as the city's proposed solution of 700 foot setoffs (which are illegal under state law) to anchor puts 50 - 150 boats overtop of a heavily used channel leading to Government Cut, creating a hugely hazardous situation.
The boats have to go somewhere - there are no docks available. You tell me what YOUR solution is. MB has the room, it's just an issue of managing it properly, and MB doesn't want to do that.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Before you hurl insults about reading comprehension, you might want to re-read my post because you missed some important adjectives and pronouns in your haste to be such a learned and snarky writer. I didn't say you were the OP. It's okay, no apology needed - but do try to follow along before you get nasty. It's not becoming to such an esteemed person. Canadians have better reputations than that even when they're writing about Miami Beach regulations.

So you're big on credentials. Me? Currently in Pacific Costa Rica on a lazy delivery from California to Florida so going through the Panama Canal (again) in a few months. I spent 5-years as fulltime delivery skipper out of San Francisco who delivered mostly between Alaska and Mexico with an occasional trip to Florida. Averaged about 220 days per year underway. And I'm now a resident of Florida - have been for almost 20 years. Have been on much of the states waterways including the Miami Beach area.

And a past writer with a regular bi-monthly column in a World Publication glossy magazine. And that's just the tip of my boating resume.

So puleeeze, stop with the chest thumping, okay?

Good luck with your cause. I think you're barking up the wrong tree. But keep at it - you're sealing the deal for the removal of the anchor outs/squatters/whatever.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by CanuckSailorguy

You said - "The person who started this thread came here seeking sympathy."
Well, since this is my thread and that's not what I did, I'd say you got it wrong.

Hey Einstein - check out post #1 on this thread that you resuscitated at the same time you started the other one (FYI - it's the third thread - the second one was deleted by the mods for being a duplication of this thread). I assume you're not SailingPug, the OP on this thread. To paraphrase what you told Whollybee - try to keep up.

Want to triple-down on looking arrogant and foolish? This is the point where most people would apologize and admit they made a mistake. Won't hold my breath.....

[CanuckSailorguy]

I'm bouncing back and forth between the threads and yes, I got who the OP is on this one wrong. You can let your breath out now...

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Hey Einstein - check out post #1 on this thread that you resuscitated at the same time you started the other one (FYI - it's the third thread - the second one was deleted by the mods for being a duplication of this thread). I assume you're not SailingPug, the OP on this thread. To paraphrase what you told Whollybee - try to keep up.

Want to triple-down on looking arrogant and foolish? This is the point where most people would apologize and admit they made a mistake. Won't hold my breath.....

[Craig Cape Town]

You kids shouldn't play so ruff.

[Morris Wilson]

In B.C. we have groups of anchored boats in sheltered areas. the majority of them are weekend boaters who need a place to park their boats. If you go there during the week it would be quite rare to see anybody there. Nobody "lives" there. but people still complain because they think somebody is getting something for nothing. You go there on a weekend and the boats are being tended and coming and going. I wonder if this is the case for many in the south? In Canada, Liveaboard is not easy.

[Richardldavis]

I have been cruising the Gulf Coast, Florida Keys, and the Atlantic Coast of Florida for a little over 3 years now.
What the "cruisers" that are supporting the Miami mooring filed don't seem to realize is that Miami doesn't want you either.
They closed a PUBLIC dock. They didn't close the dock to people living on derelict boats, they closed it for EVERY boater. If you're cruising in or through the waters of Miami they don't want, YOU there. To them they own it and you are just a trespasser that they can't regulate out of there environment. When public services are removed from the boating community every boater suffers.
Key Largo did the same thing in Tapon Bay. They closed a county built public dock in an effort to remove "permanent boaters(read derelict in their minds". Did it work, NO. They only thing it accomplished is that no boaters can use the dock paid for by county taxes.
Miami Beach is not proposing a mooring field to benefit any boater. They are zoning a morning field so that they can make their own rules against boaters.
Don't think that this is about removing derelict boats from the water. There are already laws against that in Florida and almost every other coastal state that specifically address that.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Richardldavis

Don't think that this is about removing derelict boats from the water. There are already laws against that in Florida and almost every other coastal state that specifically address that.

Issue is not derelict boats. It's about long term anchor outs, many of whom eventually become derelict and abandoned. Your story is interesting in that there are places that wanted to accommodate and attract cruisers by spending tax dollars for public docks, then changed their mind when they attracted nuisance boaters. Heck, the companion thread to this one was started by an anchor-oit who was pissed they had to move 1-mile every 45 days which they claimed was unconstitutional!!!

If there are laws that prevent long term anchor outs, please be specific. Where I live on the ICW, the sheriff's office who is responsible for enforcement gave a report to our town that the only tools they had hinge on the definition of "liveaboard" which made enforcement impossible. I'd like to set them sraight if there is a law they missed. A specific code citation would be really helpful please.

[sailorboy1]

there is one thing I am 99% positive is true

Nothing written on CF makes any difference to the topic

[Morris Wilson]

The natives should have expelled the "liveaboards" that anchored in 1492. (just stirring the pot)

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

there is one thing I am 99% positive is true

Nothing written on CF makes any difference to the topic

Normally I would agree with you. However this time it did make a difference. As mentioned, I accepted the challenge to email the Miami Beach city council and mayor and have had follow up discussions with David Suarez, councilman who sponsored the regulation. I identified myself as a non-resident of Miami Beach but described how I became aware of the pending regulation. Suarez was intrigued - he read the CF threads and urged his fellow councilmen to do so too and understand the anchor-outs did NOT represent cruisers and boaters as a whole. I also attended (Zoom) their last reading of the ordnance and spoke after the the representative of the anchor-out group spoke.

So while I have no idea if the most recent CF posts will be read by the council, I am pretty sure most if not all of them read the applicable threads and digested them.

So in the case, it very well may have made a difference to at least differentiate recreational boaters from the permanent anchor outs.

[sailorboy1]

I also sent in comments and was careful to frame as a boater. In my comments I supported the mooring field if it also maintained shore access like the other State mooring fields and wasn't just a way to chase all the boats away.

But I doubt any of that matters. What matters is what Miami Beach people want and then what the State will allow