Newbie looking for advice on buying old boat to cruise

[p435]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

But will UK VAT still count after Brexit? I assume if you bought and moved it to Germany now, they would have to honor the VAT paid status.

Waiting until after, they might not and it could cost an extra 20-25%.

With the VAT you might be right but the GBP is expected to drop quite a lot against major currencies.

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by Lepke

When I was young, 1950s, I bought boats with running engines worse than the one you're looking at. Get a survey, see what it values the boat at and items that may need repair or changes. If the price works, it should be a good first boat. I've had engines decades old. Low hours mean nothing if it was cared for and run frequently even if for short hours. You have to see the engine run. Diesels are usually reliable or can be made that way.

Older boats have their issues but often make good first boats while you learn. In my youth boats were usually wood.

That's all very well, many of us have done the same for casual coastal cruising close to good facilities. The OP states that he wants to cross the Atlantic later this year. That is a very different proposition requiring much more stringent criteria for the boat.

[decal]

@Jim Cate: Good to know that design history. Definitely going to check that. Thank you!

@boatpoker: awesome website! Really been binging it today. I am going to rethink the moisture meter plan.. and since the boat has been on the dry for so long now it will generally be a struggle. I mean, how big is the probabilty of the hull not having an osmotic problem, when it never had a proper treatment for 46 years now?

@p435/@valhalla360: A survey will definitely happen before signing any contract. "Marine survey 101" is going to be in my head before that.

@Fore and Aft: The Trident also cought my eye. That price seems to be nice, but that one in the UK really lacks many gear parts many other boats online have in them for almost same price. Leaving the condition of individual parts out (like nothing working or everything in best possible shape). But look at this one: https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=562710
It's a litte bit ouf of my budget and surveying it in Greece would be harder to organize. How is your experience for such long trips without even talking about the price before?

@Lepke: Very motivating words; I have to go somehow the middle path of that and try not to consider things wrong and get myself into big danger (of life and financially).


Thank you guys very much for that input. Btw another boat which cought my eyes: https://www.boat24.com/de/segelboote...detail/321688/

[p435]

@decal "...surveying it in Greece..." triggered a thought. I know of a Bavaria 38, based in Croatia and will be sold. If you are interested in more information send me an internal email.

[Fore and Aft]

Decal I think that first boat in your first post could quickly out of your budget if the motor broke down for good. I like the boat in Greece, it might be a hassle to survey and buy but it could be worth it.
I think sometimes the more expensive boat is cheaper in the end.
What are your plans, an Atlantic circuit then sell her?
Cheers

[decal]

@p435: I think a 38 ft. boat is too much for me. Not that I wouldn't like it to be so spacy, but I guess even a 35 footer would/will be egdy in regard of costs.

@Fore and Aft: That is what I think, too. Even if the motor would be okay in survey I am unsure if it isn't too much of a risk. The "safest" way would be to low selling price that much that I could replace engine (or fix hull in case of osmotic damage) in the range of original selling price.
Regarding plans, I'd like to go as far west as the budget and boat gets me. And then sell her again.

[p435]

@decal 38 ft understood.


Other questions
1 - Assuming you have an osmosis problem - How do you think such a repair could cost?


2- "...I'd like to go as far west as the budget and boat gets me. And then sell her again....)
Do you consider to sell her outside of EU? If so consider the tax situation. A new owner might need to pay import tax.


Keep us in the loop please!

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by decal

. Even if the motor would be okay in survey I am unsure if it isn't too much of a risk.

These are very good engines, easily maintained, and if the worst should happen, you can find a used functional one cheaply to replace. There are many of these around. I would not worry too much about that.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

2500 hours over 42 years is 60 hours a year or so. If the previous owner sailed for months in the summer, that's pretty frugal use of the engine. It's possible, but unlikely, I feel.

It could be like many boats.. only goes out for the annual 2weeks holiday.. the rest of the year is a seaside cottage with an occasional run to the nearest anchorage for the weekend. 60hrs/yr is not unusual.

[decal]

@p435: 1: About 6-10k done by a shipyard; of course an individual offer would be needed before bargaining. I woud've done it by myself If I had the time.
2: If I would make it to the EU again, I'd sell her there. If not, I'd consider these costs in selling price.

@MartinR: Do you have experience with that engine by yourself or know people that do? Because that's what I said before, too. I've read in many forums that these engines last more than a lifetime if well maintained. Also had an eye on a used but completely refurbished one for 1,5k. But that one is gone and I guess these offers are very rare.

@boatman61: Could be. Would be nice, I still have to ask the owner some of these questions.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by decal

@MartinR: Do you have experience with that engine by yourself or know people that do? Because that's what I said before, too. I've read in many forums that these engines last more than a lifetime if well maintained. Also had an eye on a used but completely refurbished one for 1,5k. But that one is gone and I guess these offers are very rare.

Friends of mine have owned these and I have worked on them. These engines are built like real marine engines, with separate cylinder heads and loose cylinder liners and even crankcase access hatches. Very easy to work on and also to rebuild. Up in Sweden loads of these and the older md2b are still going strong, and parts are very easy to get, both new and used. Great little engines.

[decal]

@MartinR: Sounds good to hear this, I am really curious about how that engine looks like. I've seen no photo of it. In case that I knew there are specific parts to replace and my resources of spares wouldn't find those; could I PM u from here to ask for contacts?

[p435]

@decal - 10k for osmosis should be fine. You need to have it dry on the hard for about 3 month before doing the work. But there are also heating "mats" to get a hull dried out faster. If needed look in YouTube. I think I saw something there.

[laika]

Looks like a well cared for boat by the pictures. Interior very clean and simple. As was said, the teak decks could merit weary consideration. The layout could well suit 3 young people for a long haul, especially if two of them are a couple and could share the v-berth.

We ran across a German couple last week laid up due to trouble with their volvo engine. For all I know they are great engines, but they were having a hell of a time finding parts in the W Caribbean and eventually had to ship in from Europe. By no means a deal breaker, but something to consider before setting out across the pond.

The best of luck to you! Every boat is it's own entity and it's impossible to know much without close inspection. Get a survey done and don't waste money on surveying tools you will not need after purchase.

[robmains]

Slightly off the subject but I am in a similar situation as Decel in that I am looking for an older boat (first) with the plan to sail the Med with my wife. I am looking at 1980's Moodys or similar but I don't understand this "VAT status" so could anyone explain in simple form how and why this is such a grey area? I have searched and researched but get conflicting answers and with the Britex coming up it is beyond me. I have seen a boat for sale in Greece on SSR pt1 which was built in UK 1986 and has been obviously in the Med for many years but the broker states the VAT status as "not applicable"! I know boats of this era are impossible to find with original bill of sale showing the VAT paid but is this actually necessary to have? I plan to buy the boat in Greece and sail it to Cyprus and as UK citizen should have no issue doing that and keeping the vessel on UK SSR. My concern is the VAT status and will it really be an issue when sailing around the Med? Has anyone been asked to produce this when traveling around Europe in a UK built boat that is 33 years old? I am confused because if the boat is built in UK 33 years ago and has been sailing (and probably previously sold) in Europe and is now being sold again from another EU member state how can the VAT still be required and if it is who is it payable to? Should I walk away from any boats that are unable to prove VAT paid or are these older boats not of interest to the authorities?