Marina Corporate Buy-out? Alternatives?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by dannc

The daily charge is interesting too. Does that mean one can disconnect the house from the grid to save some money?

Yes, in fact if you don't pay then they will do it for you for free haven't ever tried it though. There are a small number of people living off grid using hydro and solar to support themselves too. Tend to latter day hippy types.

Originally Posted by CaptTom

It would have been more accurate to say that the obstacles to building a new marina in any populated seacoast region are overwhelming. But I went with the more provocative phrasing anyway. Thanks for keeping me honest!

Environmental protection would seem to be one of the biggest challenges across Europe today along with the fact that the best spots have probably already been built on, hence buying up marinas also occurring this side of the pond.

This is a pretty little boat yard 12 miles up a river and only accessible at high water. Probably been there for 200 years. Now under threat for development after being sold. Current and proposed images which are plan B after a huge push back on the original plans by both council and locals.

[lifeofreilly57]

Many of the reasons posted previously have merit.
In our home waters many of the family owned marinas are being snapped up by corporate entities. The fees increase, no improvements are done, complaints fall on deaf ears. In most cases owners are no longer allowed to work on their own boats, only the marinas contractors.
This is driving many families to give up sailing or owning a boat since they can no longer afford the cost.
The remaining individually owned marinas are under more pressure since they can't afford some upgrades they need, lets not even bring up periodic dredging since that is a regulatory jungle to traverse through. The larger corporations have legal and lobbying money smaller operations don't, they can spread costs over multiple properties.
Unfortunately they make that money by nickel and diming the owners to death, one marina tried to charge money for staff "checking lines" before a storm roed through. They basically walked the docks and pulled on lines, then charged $100 per boat for that "service". That didn't happen twice since a number of owners left and others made an issue of it in a local paper.
So support your local independant marina before it's too late. The temptation to sell for a decent price is difficult to resist when you consider the drudge work and regulatory issues that marina owners deal with.
It's tough to run a small business.

[wholybee]

So imagine how that could work. You need a slip. So you buy in to a percentage of the co-op. You now "own" the slip, and are obligated to pay monthly maintenance fees. Maybe the fees are a bit less, maybe the same as a slip rental. But you have to pay the buy in first. Worse, and the real issue, when you leave, you need to sell the slip. If there are no buyers, you need to keep paying the monthly.

Maybe that might work in an area with high demand where the slips would sell quickly.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

The fees increase.

this and more. our good old marina was sold last year. the first thing the new owner did was raise the rates and run off the dockmaster. now he has parked a bunch of rental power boats in the vacant slips caused by the high rates. to his credit he painted the concrete docks which makes them a slip hazard when wet

[deltaten]

Interesting electric rates. Oh! But it's a business? Three times the rate for you!

OTOH.....Say. you find a nice little existing marina for sale. Mebbe 200 slips or so on a back-woods sorta off the beaten path. Might be asking 4 million or so......
Add interest, insurance, capital investment/maintenance, staffing, all taxes....oh! and don't forget principle....
Holy cow!
That ends up being a helluvva chunk of change ya hafta charge per slip

Happened to the two, long term marinas North and South of mine just a few years ago. Seems the "organization" that purchased them raised rates, reduced services and tossed a buncha folks out.
Now between 1/3 and 1/2 vacant. Chandleries gone, services gone, sales about extinct, storage yards near empty......
Makes us wonder if it was simply a land buy to eventually put up condos? Odd, because there are no public services out on the Point other than minimal, residential/small biz electric.

Or, it could be a method of "imvesting" a pile of cash?

[Ixium]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Our marina (member-owned club) has no trouble getting liability insurance. We recently re-negotiated our insurance and had multiple options to choose from.



I did think twice about claiming that "no one" is building marinas. I figured a blanket statement like that would be challenged.

It would have been more accurate to say that the obstacles to building a new marina in any populated seacoast region are overwhelming. But I went with the more provocative phrasing anyway. Thanks for keeping me honest!

To be fair there has been 2 near by that have closed down, but they were… needing many updates .

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by deltaten

Makes us wonder if it was simply a land buy to eventually put up condos?

that's what i think the eventual goal is of our recently sold marina. it was built when 30' was considered a big boat

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by wholybee

So imagine how that could work. You need a slip. So you buy in to a percentage of the co-op. You now "own" the slip, and are obligated to pay monthly maintenance fees. Maybe the fees are a bit less, maybe the same as a slip rental. But you have to pay the buy in first. Worse, and the real issue, when you leave, you need to sell the slip. If there are no buyers, you need to keep paying the monthly.

Maybe that might work in an area with high demand where the slips would sell quickly.

I get where you're going with this. You don't want to buy into a scheme like a time-share vacation rental, then be stuck with ongoing maintenance costs.

I can only say I've never heard of that happening. You would of course need to do your due diligence, just like any purchase. I agree this approach works best in an area with high demand. But I've also seen it in economically depressed areas where it's the only way for locals to ensure facilities they can afford. At some clubs a big part of your "dues" are the number of hours you're expected to volunteer. Obviously that works a lot better in "working class" marinas than "resort" marinas. Which to me is kind of the point.

[Hoodsail]

I am in the 3rd option, municipal owned town (guilford,ct,USA) marina. Took 13 yrs wait to get in with my 35 ft sailboat. fees are significantly less ($3100/season includes elect) than corporate-owned marinas. Safe Harbor corporation has been buying up family owned marinas seemingly everywhere. Safe Harbor transient slip rates are thru the roof...Can't speak to their upkeep/maintenance, but their web site speaks to marrying luxury with adventure....you'll be paying for the former. Our marina is self-sufficient, but limited by size...no catamarans & longest boat is 36 ft monohull. Great location with a 5 minute motor out to the long island sound. Town yacht club sells "dockominiums" and i thing the current price for 36ish feet is about $35-40,000. Then add monthly fees.

[thinwater]

I did look into the math for one in my local area.


It was a family business, going back generations. No note, only on going expenses. When you looked at the cost of a note based on land value, you needed to charge three to four times the prior rate, and to get that it needed some upgrades and marketing. Do that, and you are right at the rate of the corporate marinas.


And even so, the marina has empty slips. The marinas charging 3-4 times more, with a little more polish, are full. Obviously, that is the product people want.


A different location, perhaps a different answer. But if the value of waterfront property is the challenge, I can see the reasoning. With the cost of retirement skyrocketing, mom and pop need to get the best deal they can.

[Kettlewell]

Yeah, our boatyard sold last year, to a local small corporation that owns another boatyard. But, our haulout fee went up about 30% and our mooring fee went up about 50%, with no gain in service other than cleaner bathrooms. They do plan on replacing all the docks soon, and I expect rates will go up even more. It is getting harder and harder to find good old simple boat yards where you can do your own work, without all the fru fru. Luckily, at least in New England, it is so hard to develop waterfront property due to zoning, wetlands issues, evironmental reviews, etc. many of the yards are at least staying boat yards. Between this thread and this one https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...lt-284231.html I'm beginning to seriously think about getting a boat I can trailer easily to an inland storage area where I can do my own work--not a boat yard! Also, would make it easy to relocate to another part of the country for new exploration, and maybe someplace with cheaper marina fees too. I keep seeing dock spaces for rent in North Carolina for under $200 per month.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Yeah, our boatyard sold last year, to a local small corporation that owns another boatyard. But, our haulout fee went up about 30% and our mooring fee went up about 50%, with no gain in service other than cleaner bathrooms. They do plan on replacing all the docks soon, and I expect rates will go up even more. It is getting harder and harder to find good old simple boat yards where you can do your own work, without all the fru fru. Luckily, at least in New England, it is so hard to develop waterfront property due to zoning, wetlands issues, evironmental reviews, etc. many of the yards are at least staying boat yards. Between this thread and this one https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...lt-284231.html I'm beginning to seriously think about getting a boat I can trailer easily to an inland storage area where I can do my own work--not a boat yard! Also, would make it easy to relocate to another part of the country for new exploration, and maybe someplace with cheaper marina fees too. I keep seeing dock spaces for rent in North Carolina for under $200 per month.

It's not expensive to have a boat hauled by a Brownell trailer at a public launch ramp and trucked to your yard....I saved $$$$ by doing that rather than hauling at a boatyard.

[Kettlewell]

It's not expensive to have a boat hauled by a Brownell trailer at a public launch ramp and trucked to your yard....I saved $$$$ by doing that rather than hauling at a boatyard.

I live about 225 miles away from where I keep my boat, but it is an option if you live near the coast.

[sinnerman]

This marina in Galveston Bay is owned by its members :

https://www.portofinoharbour.com

cheers

[twofingerpoi]

Port Canaveral Yacht Club is member owned but the land and water rights (bottom) are leaseholds. The Port Authority controls the lease terms, costs and improvement requirements. We're in the process of replacing all docks which includes water, pump out, electrical and internet at substantial costs. While the slip rates including monthly member fees are competitive with commercial marinas, the overall rates and expected increases will not make it a cost bargain compared to alternatives. There are other benefits.

Ocean Club, adjacent is an expensive club that mostly has $1M+ recreational fishing boats.

Cape Marina, also adjacent, is a 50 year family run commercial marina that has been advised that their lease will not be renewed due to lack of improvements. So the lease will be up for grabs unless the family can secure funding and get a plan approved for millions in improvements. This is also one of the few marinas that caters to the small commercial fishing fleet that provides fresh catch to the many local restaurants.

Titusville is a good example of a well run municipal marina that maintains very cost effective rates while under operation by a professional management company. Wish we had more of these along the ICW.