Does insurance really not pay up?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Me, I have a trimaran with a very limited electrical system. and interior. The slip is also very shallow. And I have no through hulls.

I didn’t know your boat was this cool. love it!

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

That application of "act of god" is nothing but insurance company B.S.

The fact is that the pilings would not have been pulled out except that my sailboat was battered by large waves for 10 hours. That makes it the fault of me and my sailboat.

It's one of those things that may not make complete sense. But, as long as it is consistently and universally applied, it works.


If a boat upwind of you drags anchor, and does damage to your boat, "somebody" has to fix it. Courts have held (I believe), that short of gross negligence (using a 2 pound anchor, or 1/8 line, or some such -- not just using less than what you think he should have used), the cost is born by the vessel hit. It's not an insurance invention, it's a legal standard.


Since the cost is born by the vessel damaged (not the vessel doing the damage), your insurance would cover it. And not on an "unisured vessel" coverage -- under simple comprehensive. And once your insurance paid up, they would NOT go after the other guy -- because the other guy isn't responsible.


In the case of the piling incident. If your friend had insurance that covers the piling (probably not, most homeowner's doesn't cover docks and pilings from any loss for any reason, but I'm sure somebody could be found to provide a policy that does), his insurance would have covered it -- and not come back at you for doing it. They wouldn't come back at you because you are not legally (as opposed to morally) responsible, and they can't ask you to pay for something you aren't legally responsible for.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I hear the exact opposite on the forum. every story I have read on here it goes just like yours. people who talk about having insurance claims on here typically say they got paid out and it was easy and it was no problem.

people who haven’t had insurance claims say the other stuff.

^^^ This! ^^^

While i have never personally made a boat insurance claim, I have been personally involved with a number of boats who have. In most cases the claim was for damage from lightning strikes.

In EVERY case the claim was processed and paid expeditiously without quibble or hassle. In one case there were some technical issues that went back and forth a few times, and ended up being amicably resolved in favor of the boat owner. In no case was the policy canceled because of one claim that was clearly not the fault of the owner's operation or maintenance of the boat.

So, based on strictly anecdotal evidence, the insurance industry is not the evil, money-grubbing, scum that they are frequently portrayed as.

MOST insurance companies play by the rules. If you do as well, you are very unlikely to have a problem with a major rated underwriter.

[Shanachie]

Wow. So many overconfident rants defending insurance companies from the inexperienced and uninformed.


Talk to the people who live in Southwest Florida, Mexico Beach or Cedar Key. Many, many people with supposedly good insurance still waiting for payouts six months to two years later.


Or visit the Gulf Coast or the wildfire victims in Hawaii and California and ask people what their experiences have been with their insurance carriers.


It took me a year of arguing to get the settlement I had coming on my house from State Farm after Hurricane Wilma in 2005. Its original 15K offer eventually amounted to 70K or so.


Insurance adjusters don't get raises and promotions for handing out fists full of their employer's money. They get it by trying to lowball their customers or avoiding claims entirely.


This is why so many lawyers are able to make an excellent living by suing insurance companies. Just look at the billboards as you are driving down the highway if you don't want to do the research.

[CarlF]

It seems to depend a lot on your insurance company. This “fine print” has resulted in a billion dollars in denied claims for things like out of date fire extinguishers even when there is no fire. Check your policy to see if it has the paragraph about New York law that is described here

https://loosecannon.substack.com/p/s...boat-insurance

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Wow. So many overconfident rants defending insurance companies from the inexperienced and uninformed.


Talk to the people who live in Southwest Florida, Mexico Beach or Cedar Key. Many, many people with supposedly good insurance still waiting for payouts six months to two years later.


Or visit the Gulf Coast or the wildfire victims in Hawaii and California and ask people what their experiences have been with their insurance carriers.


It took me a year of arguing to get the settlement I had coming on my house from State Farm after Hurricane Wilma in 2005. Its original 15K offer eventually amounted to 70K or so.


Insurance adjusters don't get raises and promotions for handing out fists full of their employer's money. They get it by trying to lowball their customers or avoiding claims entirely.


This is why so many lawyers are able to make an excellent living by suing insurance companies. Just look at the billboards as you are driving down the highway if you don't want to do the research.

I think the question was pertaining to payouts on boat insurance.

don’t get me wrong, I’m not pro insurance. But I definitely keep track of things like that on the forum. it’s part of the reason I’m here. To get a general idea of trends. There hasn’t been anyone who said that they didn’t get their pay out on this forum and many have had claims.

of course all of the land base things you are talking about sure. I have heard a lot about that as well. Plenty of people not getting their proper payouts from hurricane damage in Florida. That stuff is a mess.

But this was about boats

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by CarlF

It seems to depend a lot on your insurance company. This “fine print” has resulted in a billion dollars in denied claims for things like out of date fire extinguishers even when there is no fire. Check your policy to see if it has the paragraph about New York law that is described here

https://loosecannon.substack.com/p/s...boat-insurance

That article was published in May of 2023, so very current events. At the current state of affairs, it's beyond awful for the owner. It effectively, in the case of that insurer, makes their policy worthless. Seriously, every single one of us has SOMETHING that would invalidate our policy.


Great Lakes is clearly a policy that isn't worth the paper it is printed on.


One would hope that the Supreme Court decision goes further than simply stating where the case can be heard. That insurance contract is a pure fraud, and no rational person can support the insurance companies behavior. I'm a small government person, but when the free market fails, Government needs to repaint the lines.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Chotu

of course all of the land base things you are talking about sure. I have heard a lot about that as well. Plenty of people not getting their proper payouts from hurricane damage in Florida. That stuff is a mess.

I'm not entirely sure I agree. I know that in the wake of a few of the big hurricanes, states (and sometimes the feds) were pressuring insurers to pay claims for damages not in the policy. And I'm sure there's more than a little of folks begging for uncovered stuff.


When the last big one to hit the Keys took my parent's roof off, we drove down and put a tarp on it, and then they paid for a new roof. Never called the insurance company because, well, they didn't have coverage for that. They self-insured, and were ahead for it after 20 years. But not everyone looks at it that way -- when the consequences hit, they aren't happy.

[Fore and Aft]

Sure some insurance companies don't pay up and you can hardly blame them. We have a few companies that offer marine insurance without a survey and some of the lemons they insure you just know they're going to get rejected when they make a claim. One claim I was involved with was just showing the insurance company current photos of the vessels condition and not the owner provided photos was enough to have the claim rejected. Another claim a few years ago involved an owner who seemed to be getting his boat restored by claiming on his contractors insurance for faulty work. His goose was finally cooked when he put in a claim for a new generator. The boat sank just enough to ruin the generator and nothing else. The insurance assessor could smell the BS a mile away. I also get lots of calls from people asking me to be an expert witness in court cases against insurance companies. One guy had his claim rejected because he was blaming his boat detailer for not putting the sunshades back on the cabin windows and it caused all his interior varnish to blister. When I inspected the boat it was more of a case of the wrong varnish over the old varnish. I have a list of storeys like that.
Cheers

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Plenty of people not getting their proper payouts from hurricane damage in Florida. That stuff is a mess.

But this was about boats

So you think insurers are making a mess of other types of insurance, but don a halo and do it right when it comes to marine insurance?


You have a lot more faith in modern corporate America than I do.


Marine insurance is different because, with mass insurers, most policies are written for smaller, older boats owned by people who also have other policies with the company.


When a boat is wrecked, the companies don't have much choice but to pay it. But how many boaters do you know who even bother with smaller claims? Not many, in my 43 years of experience.



My dealing with Geico tells me that it encourages adjusters to be tough on smaller claims, knowing that it's relatively easy to discourage most people from pursuing them.


When I talked about hiring an attorney, the adjuster pointed out it was faster and less expensive just to cover the repairs myself. He more or less dared me to sue.


Insurers also have depreciation clauses, some of them harsh enough to negate many partial claims, so there can be legitimate reasons hidden in your policy for why you can't collect on a claim.



It helps if you bundle your home, auto, life, etc., because those are the policies that make the real money, not marine. Your claim might be honored just to keep you from fleeing.



Geico saw me as fair game because my other insurance was elsewhere.

[JPA Cate]

There are actually two factors one needs to understand about insurance:

1) Reputable companies DO pay claims

BUT

2) the job of the insurance company is to make money for their stockholders by paying only for what you are covered.

THEREFORE

It is up to your own due diligence to find a reputable one AND to understand what is and is not covered, and under what conditions.

Don't rush it.

Ann

[5BTM]

I don't love insurance companies but i don't consider them to be the devil either.

When one of my properties had a major fire, they put me in the same positon as before with no loss of income, no rate increase and no cancellation of policy.

Insurance is supposed to spread the unaffordable risk but some see it as a buffet.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It is up to your own due diligence to find a reputable one AND to understand what is and is not covered, and under what conditions.

This is the huge challenge. 95% of us never file a claim (the one up thread I had is the first in my life). And since most of us responsible folks tend to flock with responsible folks, we mostly know people who haven't claimed. The market is small, the population is small, and there are no repositories of information. And, unlike cars (and even houses to some extent), almost every single claim is highly unique, making every story almost a one-off.


Kind of like divorce attorneys and real estate brokers. Most of us see very few in our lives, and almost never have a chance to work a second time with one. So picking the right one is terribly challenging. Even surveyors -- my horrible first experience was with one of the highest regarded surveyors in Annapolis.


Sussing out the scams from the winners is not easy, no matter how hard you try. Just read this thread to see the unanimity of opinion!

[sailorboy1]

well so far on this after all the blah blah blah it looks insurance companies DO pay claims

[KTP]

What can you do if the insurance companies decide not to insure your boat but the public marinas around here require insurance?

I ask because our marina does require insurance yet there are quite a few boats that have not left the slip in years and are quite suspect looking. I can't see how they have insurance.