UK / EU VAT paid no longer valid

[avontuurzoeker]

Hi

I am currently looking to buy a British flagged boat with EU VAT paid lying in Greece. I still need to determine if the original VAT was paid in the UK or other EU country but as it is a one owner boat and the owner is from the UK I suspect there is a good possibility that I will have the same problem.

Does anyone have an update on this issue or a reliable source of information?

I will be registering the boat in the Netherlands, does that mean that it will be up to Dutch authorities to determine if EU VAT status is accepted? I am Dutch resident but do not know if the VAT is determined by the country where the transaction takes place (Greece) where the purchaser is from or where the boat is registered. In my case the Netherlands would be the case for the last two options.
I understand that the Dutch has no problem accepting.

What a mess this has become!
Glad for any advice.

Cobus

[ReneJK]

@Cobus



Dutch registration is completely separate from whether or nor a boat is deemed VAT paid

you can register boats that have VAT paid and without VAT paid , it is not a question or requirement for registration

what you need is the official documentation from the Greek authorities , or the authorities where the boat was originally sold, that the boat is deemed VAT paid at the time of sale

a contract stating that VAT is paid is not enough proof

if you want to be 100% sure , the Douane in vlissingen is a really helpful lot

douane.landelijk.team.jachten@belastingdienst.nl

[avontuurzoeker]

Rene,

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I understand that invoice indicating VAT paid status is required but my question is, what if this invoice was issued in the UK when they were still part of the EU? My understanding is that Greece is no longer accepting these UK invoices as EU VAT paid. If I register the boat in another EU country where the UK invoices are accepted, would that solve the problem?

Cobus

[Chris Robb]

Originally Posted by avontuurzoeker

Hi

I am currently looking to buy a British flagged boat with EU VAT paid lying in Greece. I still need to determine if the original VAT was paid in the UK or other EU country but as it is a one owner boat and the owner is from the UK I suspect there is a good possibility that I will have the same problem.

Does anyone have an update on this issue or a reliable source of information?

I will be registering the boat in the Netherlands, does that mean that it will be up to Dutch authorities to determine if EU VAT status is accepted? I am Dutch resident but do not know if the VAT is determined by the country where the transaction takes place (Greece) where the purchaser is from or where the boat is registered. In my case the Netherlands would be the case for the last two options.
I understand that the Dutch has no problem accepting.

What a mess this has become!
Glad for any advice.

Cobus

First - it is well worth asking Dutch Customs for their confirmation as you dont want to find that they dont like the UK Vat (unlikely) as you do want as a resident to try to use Temporary Admission to the EU because as a resident you are not able to use it.

This is the back ground in Greece.
The AADE (Greek Tax Office)in Greece has formally said they will not accept UK Vat paid as EU27 Goods status.

I, on behalf of the Cruising Association, have filed a complaint against the AADE one their denial of EU27 Goods status to yachts present in the EU27 on 31st December 2020.

I have just finished a long conversation with our case handler in the Commission, and the letter launching the formal complaint goes to the AADE on Monday. A complaint does not get this far if it has no merit.

They hope that results will be very quick - their experience is that its always very quick.

So get a formal enquiry into the Dutch customs (with copy of VAT Invoice - essential if they are to rule) and you should get the answer you want. So I would delay on completion until either the Greeks sort themselves out or You get your response from the Dutch.

Good Luck - Irecon you are in the 99% safe bracket - but it would be catastrophic to loose the VAT status for you as an EU Resident.

[avontuurzoeker]

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the explanation. I have sent an email to the Dutch customs and will hopefully get a reply soon. I will report back on the outcome. In the mean time I will hold off on the survey until this is clarified.

Good luck with the complaint. I hope that it is successful as otherwise it adds even more complication the this mess.

Regards,
Cobus

[avontuurzoeker]

Chris,

I contacted the Dutch customs and got surprising and unfortunately response: they, like Greece, see it as VAT not paid! From the responses I gather that the situation is condoned if a vessel remains under the same ownership but on sale the new owner is liable to import and pay VAT in the EU.

I copy their response below. This was specifically related to a question on vessels that were in EU27 waters on 31 December 2020.

"The VAT status of the pleasure craft now, lying in the EU, is VAT not paid. So the vessel must be entered in the European Union with payment of the VAT.
If your purchase, payment and ownership had been before january 1, 2021 (to provide the evidence) then it would have been all right. That's the difference between buying before and after the Brexit with the UK."

This effectively makes vessels with VAT paid in the UK prior to Brexit a no go, at least for me.
Extremely frustrating as this applies to both the two vessels on my short list.

Do you have any update on the complaint you submitted?
I did get a telephone number at customs that I will try to call this week as a last resort.

Cobus

[avontuurzoeker]

This morning I spoke with the Dutch customs office and unfortunately the news is not good. They indicate that there is no agreement wrt the EU VAT status of vessels where the EU VAT was paid in the UK, regardless of whether they were in EU waters on 31 December 2020. These vessels need to return to the UK before 31 December 2021 (I believe this has been extended by 6 months) to qualify for UK returned goods but in the EU it is EU VAT not paid status and needs to apply for a temporary import.
Alternatively EU VAT will need to be paid on these vessels if they are to remain in the EU.

In essence exactly the same stance as Greece, and consequently other EU countries I suspect. With this information I will unfortunately have to scrap all previously UK vessels from my list.

@Chris, have you had any response to your complaint?

[ReneJK]

@Cobus

That is bad news indeed for a lot of people , so it may not be ‘just’ a misunderstanding of the VAT rules by the Greek AADE but as the Dutch customs interpret the ruling the same as the Greeks it may be a Europe wide issue

This will have an enormous impact on both UK boat sales and UK cruisers sailing the Med

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

@Cobus

That is bad news indeed for a lot of people , so it may not be ‘just’ a misunderstanding of the VAT rules by the Greek AADE but as the Dutch customs interpret the ruling the same as the Greeks it may be a Europe wide issue

This will have an enormous impact on both UK boat sales and UK cruisers sailing the Med

As the owner of a UK boat in EU waters, I'm following this with interest.


I had understood that if the boat was in EU waters at the moment Brexit legally happened, that it lost UK VAT-paid status but retained EU VAT-paid status, and that you only need two documents to prove that (a) original VAT receipt; and (b) proof of where the vessel was physically on Brexit day.


I have been basing my plans on this.



But this is new and dismaying news. I hope it's not accurate.

[moseriw]

For me it is insane that we can not simply go to the ministery of finance and get a certificate of VAT approval. Instead one only has an insecure invoice of someone indicating an VAT amount or not even better a T2L that will never be cleared as it is the proof of paid VAT. Ok better than a curious invoice but not really a solution for this 40 year old problem.

Same insecure state: I bought my bot in Gibraltar from an Englishman with an English T2L and transferred it to Croatia.

For me it is obvious tht this is OK as the boat was bought within the EU, has an european T2L certificate and is in Croatia, an EU coutry.

But relying on the thred - really nothiing which is obvious is like it is. Thanks to our unlawful laws.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by avontuurzoeker

Chris,

I contacted the Dutch customs and got surprising and unfortunately response: they, like Greece, see it as VAT not paid! From the responses I gather that the situation is condoned if a vessel remains under the same ownership but on sale the new owner is liable to import and pay VAT in the EU.

I copy their response below. This was specifically related to a question on vessels that were in EU27 waters on 31 December 2020.

"The VAT status of the pleasure craft now, lying in the EU, is VAT not paid. So the vessel must be entered in the European Union with payment of the VAT.
If your purchase, payment and ownership had been before january 1, 2021 (to provide the evidence) then it would have been all right. That's the difference between buying before and after the Brexit with the UK."

This effectively makes vessels with VAT paid in the UK prior to Brexit a no go, at least for me.
Extremely frustrating as this applies to both the two vessels on my short list.

Do you have any update on the complaint you submitted?
I did get a telephone number at customs that I will try to call this week as a last resort.

Cobus

I am puzzled by "If your purchase, payment and ownership had been before january 1, 2021 (to provide the evidence) then it would have been all right. That's the difference between buying before and after the Brexit with the UK."

So it's VAT paid with respect to whoever owned the boat on 31.12.20 but NOT with regard to a susequent purchaser? That doesn't make any sense.

[Chris Robb]

Please discount the rumour from Dutch customs. This started 2 months ago and is not correct.

If you were VAT paid anywhere before 31.12.20 and in the EU customs territories then you are EU GOODS, and loose you UK goods status (which you can regain on return using RGR and the automatic 3 year return., after that it's by claim.ing Exceptional Circumstances, if HMRC seem it to be....)
This complaint against the Greeks AADE, is underway, with the EU approved complaint presented last week. We should hear soon. Then all the issues will just disappear, and all we will be left to worry about will be 90 in 180 days

[Pete7]

Thanks Chris for all your endeavours

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Chris Robb

Please discount the rumour from Dutch customs. This started 2 months ago and is not correct.

If you were VAT paid anywhere before 31.12.20 and in the EU customs territories then you are EU GOODS, and loose you UK goods status (which you can regain on return using RGR and the automatic 3 year return., after that it's by claim.ing Exceptional Circumstances, if HMRC seem it to be....)
This complaint against the Greeks AADE, is underway, with the EU approved complaint presented last week. We should hear soon. Then all the issues will just disappear, and all we will be left to worry about will be 90 in 180 days

That corresponds to my understanding. For what little that may be worth.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by moseriw

For me it is insane that we can not simply go to the ministery of finance and get a certificate of VAT approval. Instead one only has an insecure invoice of someone indicating an VAT amount or not even better a T2L that will never be cleared as it is the proof of paid VAT. Ok better than a curious invoice but not really a solution for this 40 year old problem.

Same insecure state: I bought my bot in Gibraltar from an Englishman with an English T2L and transferred it to Croatia.

For me it is obvious tht this is OK as the boat was bought within the EU, has an european T2L certificate and is in Croatia, an EU coutry.

But relying on the thred - really nothiing which is obvious is like it is. Thanks to our unlawful laws.

Gibraltar is not part of the EU customs union so why do you think your ok? Where was the sale according to the invoice?