UK / EU VAT paid no longer valid

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by Chris Robb

Please discount the rumour from Dutch customs. This started 2 months ago and is not correct.

In my experience (as a Dutch passport holder) the Dutch customs do not ‘do’ any rumors , they are strictly doing things ‘by the book’ and adhering to the customs union rulebook

The customs office that @Cobus contacted is a/the specialized division dealing solely with pleasure yachts / pleasure boats

If they told it the way it was written here , and I have no reason to question that, you can count on (at least) the Dutch customs to follow that

It might just be an interpretation of the customs rules *but* as a Dutchie I wouldn’t touch any UK boat that has VAT paid and was in the EU on 31-12-2020 unless I get a ‘vat paid’ proof dated post 1-1-2021 from an EU customs office (one of the 27 memberstates)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

. . . I wouldn’t touch any UK boat that has VAT paid and was in the EU on 31-12-2020 unless I get a ‘vat paid’ proof dated post 1-1-2021 from an EU customs office (one of the 27 memberstates)

Is there such a thing? What is that document called?

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Is there such a thing? What is that document called?

in Dutch its called a 'BTW verklaring' (VAT Statement) issued by the Dutch IRS (Belastingdienst) and Customs (Douane) that VAT has been paid and not claimed back and can be issued on request for boats that had VAT paid originally in The Netherlands

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

in Dutch its called a 'BTW verklaring' (VAT Statement) issued by the Dutch IRS (Belastingdienst) and Customs (Douane) that VAT has been paid and not claimed back and can be issued on request for boats that had VAT paid originally in The Netherlands

OK, that's interesting. Such a thing doesn't exist in the UK, and I haven't seen one anywhere else, either.

[ReneJK]

https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/w...easure_crafts/





If, as an EU resident, you travel into another EU Member State with a pleasure craft (boat), you must demonstrate that import duties and VAT have been paid for the pleasure boat in 1 of the EU countries. You can do this by means of, for example:

• an invoice
• a statement from the Customs authorities of an EU country

In the Netherlands, Customs - National Yachts Team (Douane - Landelijk Team Jachten) - issues this statement. You apply for the statement using the form Aanvraag Btw-verklaring voor een pleziervaartuig (Application for a VAT statement for a pleasure boat - only available in Dutch). Conditions are attached to the issue of this statement. These conditions are stated in the application form.
Travellers who are not EU residents and who want to stay in the Netherlands with their pleasure boat for a short period of time can be granted a temporary exemption from customs duties and VAT. In this case, however, Customs may first demand 'security' for the customs duties and VAT.
For more information, please call the Customs Information Line.


p.s. In belgium this is called a "DL2B attest"
I am sure different EU countries have different forms / names for it

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by Anders

Gibraltar is not part of the EU customs union so why do you think your ok? Where was the sale according to the invoice?

Invoice from a private person? are you kiddiiing?
No the sale was via an agent between an Englishman and myself (Austrian)
But, the boat had a T2L issued in GB and indicatig the boat as EU-Goods.
2014 the boat crossed boarders to Croatia, T2L was acepted, and the boat was registered in Austria.


So I think I am fine but the bad feelings with the unlawful laws remain.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

in Dutch its called a 'BTW verklaring' (VAT Statement) issued by the Dutch IRS (Belastingdienst) and Customs (Douane) that VAT has been paid and not claimed back and can be issued on request for boats that had VAT paid originally in The Netherlands

What's the point with this document? If you have to prove that you paid VAT on your boat with an invoice to get this document you could just as easily prove it with the invoice itself in the extremely unlikely case that you have to show that you paid VAT on your boat. Or do they just take your word and give you the document without any proof?

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by Anders

What's the point with this document? If you have to prove that you paid VAT on your boat with an invoice to get this document you could just as easily prove it with the invoice itself in the extremely unlikely case that you have to show that you paid VAT on your boat. Or do they just take your word and give you the document without any proof?

point of the document is that you can prove without a doubt that the boat has been VAT paid *and* that between the purchase of the boat and you buying it VAT has not been claimed back



when this comes into play ?


- sometimes original invoices get lost or misplaced

- sometimes a boat is bought without VAT (by a company) and the next owner paid the VAT

- sometimes VAT paid boats get exported , VAT is claimed back , re-imported and sold again
- sometimes boats have had several owners and no one really knows
- sometimes boats have had owners from several countries inside and outside the customs union and sailed in and outside the customs union

and don't forget , its on the current owner to prove without a doubt that VAT has been paid

and then there are the EU rules concerning VAT

- if you sell a 'VAT paid' boat outside the customs union , the VAT paid status is lost (even if you sell it to another european)

- if you are outside the customs union for more than 3 years , the VAT paid status is lost

How do they issue this document ?

- they need all the original paperwork

- they check if VAT was paid

- they check if VAT has been reclaimed
- they will only issue the document on boats that have originally been sold in their country (as then they have access to the tax / customs database)


etc etc etc

so , what does this document do ? it provides proof in case you need it , and I dont know about other schengen border countries but the Dutch customs have a nasty habit of checking boats that come in from the outside , even from neighbouring countries , and they will ask for proof that VAT has been paid

p.s. some countries (France for instance) have the VAT paid yes/no/reclaimed as part of their boat registration database , so when you buy a french boat its very easy to get 'VAT paid' proof as well

p.p.s customs will most likely accept an original invoice with VAT specifiied as proof that VAT was paid *if* all of the previous owners were all private individuals and not companies that had the ability to export the boat and reclaim the VAT upon export or for commercial use of the boat (ie Charter)

[Anders]

So the Dutch custom has a VAT database of all boats sold in the Netherlands?
Probably why I never heard of it from any other country since the VAT documentation stays with the company that sold the boat.

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by Anders

So the Dutch custom has a VAT database of all boats sold in the Netherlands?
Probably why I never heard of it from any other country since the VAT documentation stays with the company that sold the boat.

I can imagine they know if VAT has been claimed back after VAT was previously paid ?

Anyway , I am not a Custom or tax official , I just know what paperwork exists and what (Dutch) customs will/can ask for

[Dockhead]

Interesting question -- what if a boat at one time was owned by a company which reclaimed the VAT. Then sold the boat to physical person, who sold the boat to another physical person, then you bought it. As far as I understand the rules, the first physical person to buy the VAT-reclaimed boat would need to pay VAT, but what if he didn't?

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Interesting question -- what if a boat at one time was owned by a company which reclaimed the VAT. Then sold the boat to physical person, who sold the boat to another physical person, then you bought it. As far as I understand the rules, the first physical person to buy the VAT-reclaimed boat would need to pay VAT, but what if he didn't?

I don't think the company can reclaim VAT but regardless if it has done that or not it should always charge VAT when it sells the boat.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Anders

I don't think the company can reclaim VAT but regardless if it has done that or not it should always charge VAT when it sells the boat.

I wonder if some failure to do so, affects later purchasers?


Even though I have spent the last 30 years of my life in Europe, I still find VAT and its various nuances to be rather mystifying.

[moseriw]

Anders to my understanding. When a private person buys from a company the company is liable to sell with VAT and has to credit it to its VAT-Account.

[Jamme]

Following with interest (luckily in this case from far away as a EU citizen permanently based in the USA)… If confirmed true, this would be an incredibly unfair consequence (paid by innocent end users) of two states bickering. It may have been said and I may have missed it, how much would the Greek VAT % be?