Log Book Entries

[Pblais]

I wouldn’t bother using it - but kinda neat ...

Sorry Gord, If I can't say one single thing nice I won't. I can't.

I'm in between projects and working on a new one that will be significnatly better than Lattitudes and poor Attitudes and not require you to run the install twice (the one above does need to be run twice as it bombs the first time).

I should be ready for beta testing mid June. The core is something I've worked on for a few years and used daily. Very simple yet very easy to use as an organization tool. I'm tweaking it for doing engine hours based logs as well as date time based logs. Power boaters like to log engine hours as well as date / time. It's not bad for sailboats too. The feature can be turned off .

Letting you add text notes, documents, web links, and pictures means it is just as good ashore as on the water. Lots of user defined features and some other goodies too with a nice user interface (no menus!). Sorry, Windows based only.

I'll let folks here know and there will be free version 1.0 license for beta testers that provide something (as in more than 25 words response) in terms of feedback. After that I'll probably want $20.

[JGarrick]

Originally Posted by Pblais

Sorry Gord, If I can't say one single thing nice I won't. I can't.

Ah! Now I understand.

I'm always on the lookout for an interesting software project to work on. It looks like this one is already taken (although that wouldn't stop me).

[Pblais]

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

The data base part of this is really easy. It's the user interface that gets hard so the user thinks it is easy.

[JGarrick]

Originally Posted by Pblais

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

The data base part of this is really easy. It's the user interface that gets hard so the user thinks it is easy.

Well, that's always the case, but developers tend to love databases and programming data access, but hate programming interfaces.

Also, making interfaces easy to work with is a lot harder than most developers think, because they know how their own stuff works and so they tend to think everyone else knows how their stuff works too. This has happened to me more than once. I'll code something and think it's plainly obvious how it's supposed to be used, and the people who use it are completely befuddled. The other problem is that developers tend to have warped standards of what level of help the GUI should provide. When you're used to working with a code editor that just helps you type stuff more effectively, or a query window where you just type some SQL and press go for results, you get used to not expecting much help from your software.

Learning how people that don't like computers think is the hardest part of the job.

[coot]

Originally Posted by JGarrick

I'll code something and think it's plainly obvious how it's supposed to be used, and the people who use it are completely befuddled.

You didn't happen to write every Microsoft Windows application that I have ever touched, did you?

I work in software engineering, and I always tell everybody "Document your work. If a feature is not documented, it doesn't exist."

[Pblais]

No I didn't write any Microsoft Applications. Actually, I write applications that you can't buy in stores. If you are a school teacher in the State of Missouri I wrote the software your school district uses to report your pension contributions. That is just one project that dexcribes something you might have encoutered.

Most of my work is in user interfaces to complex databases. My Log system is not a complex database. Two primary tables, a description table and some support tables that lets you save "tagged lists". I use some memory based tables I make on the fly to make it run faster. The UI currently has no menus, but one configuration form. I use icons for most things and user defined colors and fonts everywhere. The UI is really the real work but it is made easier when the data design was done right.

If you could see the new Microsoft Vista products you will see the complex menus are all gone. Word no longer has 32 tools bars but two new things they call Ribbons and I think just a Files menu and a second one I can't recall.

A problem with many UI's is that the data table design is so poor you can't write the interface properly (as in easy to use). One of my clients has what I cal the worst written database application that still sort of works. I write a second program that reads the data and does things they need. They are a francisee and are required to run the parent company software. Talk about a bad deal - being under contract to use toools like that.

[JGarrick]

Originally Posted by Pblais

...the data table design is so poor you can't write the interface properly...

That's because there are too many developers running around out there who think they understand database design even though they've never heard of third normal form. Writing software and designing databases are different skills. The latter really requires some solid interviewing skills so that the designer can find out from the users and business experts how all the bits and pieces relate to each other. Unfortunately, a lot of databases are built basically with a table per screen or a table per grid. Also, a lot of businesses treat db admins as specialized server jockeys instead of as people who can help with schema design (and not just db construction).

RE: Menus
I actually like menus, although I know few others like them. It gives you a way of exploring the functionality of an app, and an alternate path to functionality that is sure to be accessible via the keyboard. I like to make sure that there are always at least two, and preferrably at least three or even four paths to every feature - a direct click on some kind of button or other control, a menu item, and if possible also a hot-key combination of some sort and/or a toolbar button for the most frequently used items. Menus are OK, even a good thing, so long as they aren't the only way to get to a feature. They've become disliked by users because they've been abused by developers who lack imagination.

[Pblais]

Software development is no different than any other skill. You don't have to be very good at all to be better than most.

The problem with menus is with applications like MSoft Word they actually have a large number of extensive features that get lost because users don't know they are there. A multi layer hiearchy of menus is not logical from first glance once you get more than two layers deep and a lot of people never get the first layer. Out of sight means out of mind.

[JGarrick]

Originally Posted by Pblais

A multi layer hiearchy of menus is not logical from first glance once you get more than two layers deep and a lot of people never get the first layer. Out of sight means out of mind.

I agree entirely, and that's why I don't think they should ever be the primary means of accessing a feature. As a secondary path, I like menus, but not as a primary path.

[S/V Elusive]

Originally Posted by coot

You didn't happen to write every Microsoft Windows application that I have ever touched, did you?

I work in software engineering, and I always tell everybody "Document your work. If a feature is not documented, it doesn't exist."

Tis be wat keeps teckinal writters like me imployeed.

[Pura Vida]

There are four sides to software: what was proposed, what was designed, what was documented, and what it really does.

I wrote a simple little accounting interface after interviewing both our Accounting Manager and President. Both tested it. Both approved it. Neither can use it. (Its three steps.) Until someone comes up with a single shiny button to do everything, users will be the primary challenge.

As for electronic logs. I get a small pleasure out of making manual entries in my logbook. My PC will go with me when I cut the docklines for good in 897 days, but only for email... unless better technology comes along before then....

[capt_douglas]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

This is something that I tend to procrastinate on but I'd kinda like to get an idea of how other small vessel (under 80') cap'ns make their entries.

I've seen pre-printed log books that have inserts for weather, course and bunch of other stuff I wouldn't really have much use for.

Are there any real requirements or is it just an open book where one just puts in what they like?

Myself, I just make notes as I go of my departure time, destination, L & L, when I get there and times related to events. At the end of the day while anchored out or tied-up I try to make the entry (unlikely). I still have notes from last year and was just making the entries. The main reason for this thread.

.................................................. ...................._/)

A ship's log is a legal and binding document.

Look at it this way: disaster strikes. You loose all electronics. Visibility is either nil or you're too far offshore to sea land. Can your logbook determine your position/EP and tell you a course and bearing to the nearest safe harbor? That's the minimum I'd keep religiously in my log.

Doug

[Pblais]

I agree with Doug.

Sure in a legal battle the log book could hang you, but in a bad situation it might save you. Just because something could have a down side is not a reason to not have one for the up side. There is a down side to anything you care to look at deep enough.

Sort of like, Gee maybe the compass could be broke, maybe you should not take one.

[Extemporaneous]

Originally Posted by robert_vie

SailingLog is a digital logbook (non-manipulable) on your iPhone/iPad. Very easy to use!
SailingLog für iPhone, iPod touch und iPad im iTunes App Store

This could be an alternative!

Are you one of those automated spam-bots??

Out of your 10 posts tonight, there are.... 10
mentioning what I'd bet an ounce of gold is your software.

Forget it, spam-bots probably don't answer questions.

Extemp.

[robert_vie]

Is there somerhing wrong, when you are convinced that the App is of help for Skippers?