Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

A long time ago, both Jim & I became unable to stand watch, 3 days out of New Zealand, due to illness.

Did not have an anchor ball at that time. But we did have the anchor light. No one kept watch at all for over 24 hours, too weak to make it up the companionway.

Regardless of what is specified in the regulations, we thought the all round white would keep us safe. Perhaps it did! No one came to investigate. In daylight as someone approached the boat, it would have been obvious she was hove to.

It would seem to me that if the other guy sees an anchor ball or light, he/she will know to avoid you.

Ann

Ann's responses are the best.

No ego, always first hand experience.

Always practical.




Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Viking Sailor]

Whether the crew of a cruising sailboat at sea is doing rule-5 stuff or not, there main safety goal is to alert merchant ships that they are approaching a stand-on vessel. This can be accomplished by displaying lights, using AIS, or calling on VHF radio. Meaningful lights to be displayed at the masthead would be a tri-color when in a high traffic area, and an extra bright anchor light at sea.

I would avoid using NUC lights unless I was truly unable to immediately, and for some time into the future, change the boat's direction or speed.

[monte]

Hmm but wouldn't an anchor light be confused for a steaming light when deck mounted navigation lights are displayed...

[captain58sailin]

The anchor light comment was meant tongue in cheek. I believe the NUC would be most applicable to the situation, and if someone is equipped with a radar or even better an ARPA radar, it would only take 2 to 3 min. to determine that the target is stationary, and the other vessel can move around you. If you had deck lights on then it would help the people observing you to determine at least the type of vessel and it wouldn't be hard to determine there was no one on the wheel. Unless you have a pilot house like me

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

USCG defines "underway" anytime you are not anchored or tied to the dock. Even if you are drifting, you are considered "underway not making way".

I guess we are saying the same thing. As soon as you are not attached to land in any way - you are considered to be obligated under the Sailing adn STeering rules (unless you show a NUC signal)

[Jim Cate]

Seems to me that at sea a mast head all around light, ie anchor light, with no other lights displayed would appear to any approaching vessel as overtaking from astern. This would make the approaching vessel the give way vessel, and he would keep clear. This would not be following the letter of the rule, but would inconvenience him little and avoid a collision... which is the aim of the rules. And this is the method used frequently by the Hiscocks, ie hoist a Tilley lamp under the boom and go to sleep.

Yes, this claims for you a "right" that you don't really deserve, but what the hell does that matter at sea with unlimited room to maneuver ? As they say, "no harm, no foul"...

Jim

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Seems to me that at sea a mast head all around light, ie anchor light, with no other lights displayed would appear to any approaching vessel as overtaking from astern. This would make the approaching vessel the give way vessel, and he would keep clear. This would not be following the letter of the rule, but would inconvenience him little and avoid a collision... which is the aim of the rules. And this is the method used frequently by the Hiscocks, ie hoist a Tilley lamp under the boom and go to sleep.

Yes, this claims for you a "right" that you don't really deserve, but what the hell does that matter at sea with unlimited room to maneuver ? As they say, "no harm, no foul"...

Jim

Thats what I have been trying to say.... even show steaming light and stern light....ships avoid white lights that aren't moving....or aren't moving very fast. I can't think of a single situation where upon seeing a white light a big ship navigator would expect the white light to get out of his way.

I thought it was summer in the north ( edited to add... it certainly isn't summer here in Auckland,,,,brrrr)? Shouldn't all these armchair navigators be out sailing?

Ping, up to his armpits in work and hoping to get the heater working tomorrow

[weavis]

Ultimately, is is not what it is all about: to be situationally aware and avoid the risk of collision?

Before I set off to drive to work this morning, I checked the weather and the traffic report. 3 roads down on my normal route. I planned a different route, listened to the GPS and traffic all the way, and changed that route according to circumstances.

Same in a vessel. More or less, except for the cafe I passed with the hot waitress standing in the window...........

Actually got to the clinic earlier.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by weavis

Ultimately,(th)is is not what it is all about: to be situationally aware and avoid the risk of collision?

Before I set off to drive to work this morning, I checked the weather and the traffic report. 3 roads down on my normal route. I planned a different route, listened to the GPS and traffic all the way, and changed that route according to circumstances.

Same in a vessel. More or less, except for the cafe I passed with the hot waitress standing in the window...........

Actually got to the clinic earlier.

Yep , that was the original point of the thread but it sems to have drifted away off and over the horizon.

So, its 02dark and its blowing 50 bags with sleet from the direction that you want to go in, temp down to about 5*C before windchill, you haven't seen another ship in a week, you are wet, you are shivering and going a bit hypothermic. Do you go below and have a chat with the cook ( bit more heavy duty than me but also in need of sleep..) about the finer points of the colregs?
No... you put on some nice bright white lights, drop the sails, lash the helm amidships and go below to fill your hot water bottle and make a nice hot cup of cocoa. That is the reality.... slept well... saw a few hot chicks in shop windows....

Listened to the GPS? Met a bloke who said he would talk to ships on the VHS.... I presume he lifted the flap thingo and talked into the hole.

Back to the OP... I don't like that BG dodger on the yacht that sunk.... just something else compromising your good lookout.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Yep, that was the original point of the thread but it seems to have drifted away off and over the horizon.

So, its 02dark and its blowing 50 bags with sleet from the direction that you want to go in, temp down to about 5*C before windchill, you haven't seen another ship in a week, you are wet, you are shivering and going a bit hypothermic. Do you go below and have a chat with the cook ( bit more heavy duty than me but also in need of sleep..) about the finer points of the colregs?
No... you put on some nice bright white lights, drop the sails, lash the helm amidships and go below to fill your hot water bottle and make a nice hot cup of cocoa. That is the reality.... slept well... saw a few hot chicks in shop windows....

Listened to the GPS? Met a bloke who said he would talk to ships on the VHS.... I presume he lifted the flap thingo and talked into the hole.

Back to the OP... I don't like that BG dodger on the yacht that sunk.... just something else compromising your good lookout.

Drifting is good...... just make others aware of it

Ultimately we are all trying to do the same thing. Know whats going on and avoid holes in the boat. We have a regulation that covers this. For whatever reason, (probably religious) Some people slavishly adhere to the absolutes, and yet the first time they break that in going below without a watch even for a couple of minutes, they have diminished and proved false to their understanding of it.

The colregs was penned by MEN. Men just like you and I. That leaves it open to their prejudices. attitudes and fears. I have studied the colregs. You have studied the colregs. Sometimes we come to different conclusions depending on our prejudices attitudes and fears.

To this end, colreg5 has been penned to emphasise the importance of using sight and hearing at all times in keeping a good lookout. It then hands the responsibility to the Master of the ship to implement it.

If the trip is completed with no incidents, then the regulation is deemed to have been observed. If a serious incident occurs, then a court of law will view it through the filter of ALL the colregs, and determine or apportion blame if required.

Some have said that the colregs will need to altered if crewless vessels start plying the oceans. They do not. Colreg5 applies only to humans. (And even this will be argued by purists..... ) As long as the vessel observes: by using all means available, the situational awareness and the ability to put the correct flags and lights in any given situation, it will be argued that they are safe.

I recently watched a video on a young girls round the world solo trip where the vessel was so full of electronics that when she went to sleep, a whole remote monitoring station was watching for her. Satellites, sonar, RADAR, GPS, AIS etc....... she was monitored electronically and by live people at all times..... How does that fit in with your concept of colreg 5?

Well, our solo sailors generally get where they are going and with no mishaps. Personally, Id love to share my vessel with a happy and knowledgable female sailor as would our solo sailors generally, but given the absence, we sail alone and enjoy it!!

[Viking Sailor]

The only unbreakable COLREGS rule is: Don't cause the loss of life or property.

You can break any other COLREGS rules as long as you can show that your actions were necessary to avoid the loss of life or property. In fact you are required to take whatever actions are necessary to avoid the loss of life or property.

Thus, if showing only an all around white light from the masthead improves the chances that a ships OOW will deduce that he is approaching a stand-on vessel then that is a good thing.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Thats what I have been trying to say.... even show steaming light and stern light....ships avoid white lights that aren't moving....or aren't moving very fast. I can't think of a single situation where upon seeing a white light a big ship navigator would expect the white light to get out of his way.

I thought it was summer in the north ( edited to add... it certainly isn't summer here in Auckland,,,,brrrr)? Shouldn't all these armchair navigators be out sailing?

Ping, up to his armpits in work and hoping to get the heater working tomorrow

Well, if nothing else, there is certainly one thing I have come to appreciate from this and the other recent threads on solo sailing and watchkeeping...

Despite having done a fair bit of singlehanding over the years, I never had any idea it could be so damn COMPLICATED...

;-))

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Back to the OP... I don't like that BG dodger on the yacht that sunk.... just something else compromising your good lookout.

Absolutely... Consistently, that is probably my biggest gripe about most of the boats I run these days... The extent to which some of these dodgers, biminis, and enclosures are impairing all-around visibility from the cockpit or helm can be astonishing...

"Suitable for motoring down the ICW during Daylight Hours ONLY..."

;-)

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I disagree -- if you sail the wrong way up a TSS, you are violating the COLREGS flagrantly, even if there is no traffic and not even any traffic.

You pointed out yourself that nobody every got fined just for not maintaining a good lookout. The case of the French sailor being fined for violating the TSS is clearly a case of him being fined for "impeding" other vessels, not just for going up a TSS The wrong way.

Concerning autonomous vessels -- I think they are in violation. The COLREGS did not contemplate autonomous vessels and maybe should be amended.

I do see reports of autonomous vessel, some being developed on behalf of the government, being found "in compliance" with the COLREGS.

To me it does appear that the states enforcing the COLREGS seem to operate on the theory that there is no punishable offence if you don't cause any collisions or impediments.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

You pointed out yourself that nobody every got fined just for not maintaining a good lookout. The case of the French sailor being fined for violating the TSS is clearly a case of him being fined for "impeding" other vessels, not just for going up a TSS The wrong way.



I do see reports of autonomous vessel, some being developed on behalf of the government, being found "in compliance" with the COLREGS.

To me it does appear that the states enforcing the COLREGS seem to operate on the theory that there is no punishable offence if you don't cause any collisions or impediments.

It is often true that COLREGS offences are not pursued unless there is an accident, but it is simplistic and wrong to make a principle out of that and assume that no one ever cares.

TSS violations are prosecuted quite often without any impeding at all -- the Germans do it almost daily in the German Bight. If you sail up the Dover Straits TSS the wrong way, you will be in a heap of trouble without regard to other traffic, at least, if you fail to get out of it immediately after being warned over the VHF.

A flagrant violation, or one you are accidentally caught in, might get you a fine. I have not heard of jail time, but there's no reason why you might not get it in a really bad case.


That being said, I don't think that it is very likely that you will ever get in trouble for violations of COLREGS in a good faith attempt to be more safe.

Showing NUC because of necessity to sleep, or showing an anchor ball or anchor light, is against the letter of the Rules, but I can't imagine anyone would even say a single word against it, as what you are doing is a good faith attempt to increase safety. Rule 2 even allows departures from the other Rules in such cases.