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Old 27-11-2020, 11:03   #1
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Italy Dutch flag OK?

I have heard that Italy does not accept the Dutch registration. Sounds strange for 2 EU countries.

Can anyone confirm this? Experience?


Thanks
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Old 27-11-2020, 11:24   #2
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

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Originally Posted by Hahser View Post
I have heard that Italy does not accept the Dutch registration. Sounds strange for 2 EU countries.

Can anyone confirm this? Experience?


Thanks
Not any Dutch registration. Only ICP
Do a search on the forum or FB Med sailing group


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...cp-241157.html
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Old 27-11-2020, 13:33   #3
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

OP Would it not be better to talk to the Italian authorities? Get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

I would phone or email the nearest embassy. Prefer an email myself as then I have a written response I can use if needed at some future moment.

Even if the consensus here is that it's all ok, would you really prefer to rely on a bunch of internet surfers as your source of fact?

Sure some things CF is great for, but actual facts definitely not. Some posters think Africa is a country. There are even people here that don't believe the earth is flat; it astounds me, after all it's so obvious.
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Old 27-11-2020, 13:35   #4
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

OMG that is my 666 post above. Scary number; I'll be watching out for lightening bolts for the next little while.
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Old 27-11-2020, 21:57   #5
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

Are they referring to the Dutch "light registry" or something like that? There is a Dutch registry status that people have been using to avoid taxes and various European countries are cracking down on these shenanigans.
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Old 28-11-2020, 10:03   #6
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

The official Dutch registration is O.K. Then you have a so called 'Zeebrief' this is the only official registration from Flagstate the Netherlands.



There is a Dutch ICP a document to proof ownership, originally for Dutch people to have proof of ownership. Some country's accepted this as registration, but this is no official Dutch registration. Till +/- 2018 the flag was mentioned on this document. So for a whole bunch of country's it was O.K. to have an ICP. but due to some reason the Dutch government is not allowing to mention a flag anymore on the ICP document. Now it says flag: Not applicable. The ICP was cheap and it was/is easy to get such a document even if you are no dutch citizen.



And yes we met a lot of Dutch flagged yachts, happy to talk Dutch but a lot of the people did not even now where to find the Netherlands. For some reason for them it was interesting to have a Dutch ICP and have a dutch flag. But now it is game over for a lot of country's (Italy, Spain, Portugal....) they do not accept the ICP anymore. But the original Dutch Flagstate registration is IMO white list A and accepted everywhere in the world.
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Old 28-11-2020, 10:36   #7
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

Hard to know why you ask the question. Maybe this topic can be usefull.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...en-242763.html
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Old 29-11-2020, 09:06   #8
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

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Originally Posted by Hahser View Post
I have heard that Italy does not accept the Dutch registration. Sounds strange for 2 EU countries.

Can anyone confirm this? Experience?


Thanks
Also the Dutch ICP will not be accepted for Italy, there several organisations who are trying to sell you a low price Dutch ICP; for Italy you should have an Italian registratie.

Regards,

Martin V.
The Netherlands
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Old 29-11-2020, 09:53   #9
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

We registered our boat with the Dutch. It is apparently ICP and now countries are not accepting it. Italy, Spain and Portugal we are told. Our boat is in a marina in Italy and we intend to register our boat elsewhere before we arrive. We read that a number of boats were seized by Italian authorities recently for having the ICP. I am not speaking from first hand but it got our attention and we are changing. Our boat was a European VAT paid boat and we wanted to retain the VAT paid status so we registered in the EU. It was a little more expensive than registering it in the US.
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Old 29-11-2020, 10:11   #10
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

The Dutch ICP does not provide a vessel with a nationality. At best it is an informal quasi-proof of ownership, useful for internal waters. A vessel with a Dutch ICP is not a flagged vessel and should not fly a flag. The unflagged vessel is immediately subject to the laws of the nation upon which water's it resides, which means that it is an unregistered vessel and thus illegal as to being unregistered in the country upon which water's it resides. It is also a vessel that is not accorded innocent passage and other rights under UNCLOS.

A vessel should be properly registered and flagged if it wishes to transit into international waters and the high seas.

Reference the language of the document, image attached.
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Old 29-11-2020, 11:15   #11
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

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Originally Posted by Poemy View Post
So for a whole bunch of country's it was O.K. to have an ICP. but due to some reason the Dutch government is not allowing to mention a flag anymore on the ICP document. Now it says flag: Not applicable. The ICP was cheap and it was/is easy to get such a document even if you are no dutch citizen.
Regarding "due to some reason": some German NGO boats provided their oh so humanitarian migrant shuttle services under this "ICP flag". Came to the attention of the Dutch parliament and rules got quickly sharpened...
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:12   #12
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

boats with the NL "ICP flag" can be confiscated and impounded in Europe

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/1...ers-nieuwsuur/

maybe reflag ?
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:14   #13
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

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Originally Posted by Timreyn View Post
We registered our boat with the Dutch. It is apparently ICP and now countries are not accepting it. Italy, Spain and Portugal we are told. Our boat is in a marina in Italy and we intend to register our boat elsewhere before we arrive. We read that a number of boats were seized by Italian authorities recently for having the ICP. I am not speaking from first hand but it got our attention and we are changing. Our boat was a European VAT paid boat and we wanted to retain the VAT paid status so we registered in the EU. It was a little more expensive than registering it in the US.
you can reflag in Poland if you have EU citizenship

polishyachtflag.com
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Old 03-12-2020, 15:18   #14
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Re: Italy Dutch flag OK?

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In a major drugs bust earlier this month in Spain, the Operación Goleta-Gratil, at least one ship containing 6,000 kilos of smuggled hash was flying under the Dutch flag. This and other warnings from European organisations, have led to concerns being raised about the reported ease of getting a Dutch ‘ICP’ certificate for pleasure boats.

Read more at DutchNews.nl:
sadly this is what has screwed the dutch light registry
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