Do you use a Daytime Black ball at Anchor?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

This is an excellent illustration for why the anchor ball COLREGS rule is obsolete and overdue for revision. The ball is really difficult to make out and one would be hard pressed to argue that it serves any useful purpose other than CYA in case of a lawsuit. In practice, any larger vessel will have AIS-A clearly indicating its status ("At Anchor").

You think they are obsolete and want to revise them?
What rule would you put in its place?
Keep in mind any rule you propose can’t be centered on AIS, rule has to work in countries around the world where average fishing boat owner doesn’t make enough to afford an AIS, let alone the needed power supplies, antennae and periodic replacement. I’m not talking about recreational fishers but people who do it to put food on the table.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

This is an excellent illustration for why the anchor ball COLREGS rule is obsolete and overdue for revision. The ball is really difficult to make out and one would be hard pressed to argue that it serves any useful purpose other than CYA in case of a lawsuit. In practice, any larger vessel will have AIS-A clearly indicating its status ("At Anchor").

How is that difficult to make out? At sea, one would normally be using binoculars which would make it more obvious. The ball is easily as visible as the chain, which other commentators opined is the most obvious sign a vessel is at anchor. When the chain is wrapped around the bow or run from a pocket on the opposite bow, the ball acts in stead to clearly mark the vessel as anchored. Low-tech, easy-to-use and effective - I don't see why anyone complains about this???

[sv_pelagia]

This online guide from Transport Canada has the following footnote:

17. Vessels less than 12 metres in length are not required to exhibit the day shape in Canadian waters of a roadstead (a partly sheltered anchorage), harbour, river, lake or inland waterway. ^

https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-trans...oid-collisions

[team karst]

I black balled recently at the closest inlet on a week end. They all kept their distance; but I think they saw that ball and thought it had something to do with covid. Mission accomplished...

OH, and the "ball" twisted like crazy in the wind, and I almost couldn't pull it down on the flag halyard. These breakdown plastic "balls" need clearance from the down haul.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

How is that difficult to make out? At sea, one would normally be using binoculars which would make it more obvious. The ball is easily as visible as the chain, which other commentators opined is the most obvious sign a vessel is at anchor. When the chain is wrapped around the bow or run from a pocket on the opposite bow, the ball acts in stead to clearly mark the vessel as anchored. Low-tech, easy-to-use and effective - I don't see why anyone complains about this???

They complain because they violate COLREGS and are looking for any excuse to make them feel better about it

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

This online guide from Transport Canada has the following footnote:

17. Vessels less than 12 metres in length are not required to exhibit the day shape in Canadian waters of a roadstead (a partly sheltered anchorage), harbour, river, lake or inland waterway. ^

https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-trans...oid-collisions

Ha! Once again, Canada takes a sensible approach to laws (thanks Pelagia ).

It's amusing how much this discussion parallels the, 'black water discharge' discussions we've had recently. Some are: THE LAW IS THE LAW! While others choose to follow their own guidance on what is needed.

[C420sailor]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Quote:
A vessel of less than seven metres in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

Talk about vague! So who defines "near"?

And this seems to say that if you anchor in an anchorage, you need to exhibit the anchor ball.

And who defines "anchorage"?

In the US, charts have areas outlined in red/pink that say ‘SPECIAL ANCHORAGE’

Pretty much wherever you see a decent sized mooring field. No ball or light required, I believe.

That said, I tend to turn my anchor light on anyway. Why? The locals who know the field like the back of their hand won’t expect my anchored vessel to be there. Technique only.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by C420sailor

In the US, charts have areas outlined in red/pink that say ‘SPECIAL ANCHORAGE’

Pretty much wherever you see a decent sized mooring field. No ball or light required, I believe.

….

There are only about 100 Special Anchorages in the US. Most anchorages marked on charts are regular anchorages.

[thinwater]

IMO, this poll is an excellent example of response bias. It says 38% of boaters rig a black ball. I think we can all agree, right or wrong, the reality is is more like 2-4 %, and 0-2% once we eliminate commercial boats and crewed charters.


It's like a poll on PFD wear. You would think most people wear them, but in fact USCG observation data says about 10% of adults and less if smaller boats are excluded. Maybe 5% on cruising boats. But the people who wear them respond to the poll.


Black ball? I think the work/benefit ratio does not work for recreational boaters away from channels. Anchor lights are different.



If you or we had need to anchor in or near traffic areas, I do see the value. Certainly, I see the value for ships; it can be hard to tell at a good distance and maneuvering requirements dictate that you need to know each boats navigation status.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by C420sailor

In the US, charts have areas outlined in red/pink that say ‘SPECIAL ANCHORAGE’

Pretty much wherever you see a decent sized mooring field. No ball or light required, I believe.

That said, I tend to turn my anchor light on anyway. Why? The locals who know the field like the back of their hand won’t expect my anchored vessel to be there. Technique only.

Go back and read that again. It says "when not in an anchorage". That means that if the boat is in an anchorage it has to show the black ball.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's amusing how much this discussion parallels the, 'black water discharge' discussions we've had recently. Some are: THE LAW IS THE LAW! While others choose to follow their own guidance on what is needed.

I'm going to ask you and the others claiming to follow the law (COLREGs).

The COLREGs require you to sound a long blast of the horn when leaving a slip and three shorts when in "reverse propulsion" (backing out of a slip).

Do you do this?

Do you do this if it's six o'clock in the morning and other people are sleeping on their boats?

Be honest, now.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I'm going to ask you and the others claiming to follow the law (COLREGs).

The COLREGs require you to sound a long blast of the horn when leaving a slip and three shorts when in "reverse propulsion" (backing out of a slip).

Do you do this?

Do you do this if it's six o'clock in the morning and other people are sleeping on their boats?

Be honest, now.

I don't sound coming out of a slip unless I have limited visibility. If I already know there's no traffic nearby that could pose a conflict, there's no point in sounding. However, when I get to the end of the fairway at my home marina (where there's pretty poor visibility in one direction) or any other tight, limited visibility spot, I always sound 1 long, even if it's early in the morning and I'm pretty sure there's nobody out there.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I'm going to ask you and the others claiming to follow the law (COLREGs).

The COLREGs require you to sound a long blast of the horn when leaving a slip and three shorts when in "reverse propulsion" (backing out of a slip).

Do you do this?

Do you do this if it's six o'clock in the morning and other people are sleeping on their boats?

Be honest, now.

I think you've got me confused with someone else. I didn't claim to follow the COLREGS on this, or the other, issue.

I also wonder how many adherents to the anchor ball rule also fly the cone while motoring. I know I've never seen one of those -- ever.

There are lots of carve outs for COLREGS that don't apply to smaller (recreational) craft. I don't know why this can't be one, as it appears to be in the Canadian approach (at least partially).

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I don't sound coming out of a slip unless I have limited visibility. If I already know there's no traffic nearby that could pose a conflict, there's no point in sounding. However, when I get to the end of the fairway at my home marina (where there's pretty poor visibility in one direction) or any other tight, limited visibility spot, I always sound 1 long, even if it's early in the morning and I'm pretty sure there's nobody out there.

So, like me, you don't strictly follow the law at all times, you use your judgement. Right?

[C420sailor]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Go back and read that again. It says "when not in an anchorage". That means that if the boat is in an anchorage it has to show the black ball.

Who wrote these regs? Were they drunk?

So when a boat is in an anchorage—you know, an area where boats are expected to be anchored, they have to display a ball and light indicating they are anchored. But outside the anchorage, where you wouldn’t necessarily expect a vessel to be at anchor, none of that is required?

The wording is confusing, and I read it the way that makes logical sense. But logic and COLREGS appear to be mutually exclusive.

This is why people do whatever the hell they want.