Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by DotDun

SNIP

The only way to change CA bureaucratic behavior is to have a court tell them to stop. CA bureaucrats know that and take advantage of it.

Let me fix that for you.

The only way to change CA bureaucratic behavior is tactical nukes.

[xymotic]

O-M-F-G!!!

So the BOE guy today told me that he would email me links to relevant law
This is the email I received:

Dear Mr. Xxxxx,

Thank you for speaking with me today.

We may also communicate via email but in order to do so, I would need an 'Authorization for Electronic Transmission of Data' BOE-82 filed. This form is available at http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/boe82.pdf.

To help you understand the Claim for Refund and appeals process see Publication 17 'Appeals Procedures' downloadable at http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/pub17.pdf.

To help you understand the not purchased for use exemption, see FAQ - Use Tax Exemptions or Exclusions - Board of Equalization.

For the Taxpayers' Rights Advocate (TRA) Office, see Taxpayers’ Rights Advocate - California State Board of Equalization. They may help you understand the legislation behind California's taxation system.

Feel free to call me with any questions or concerns.

Respectfully,

XXXX



He Emails me to tell me I have to send them a form to allow him to email me

Un-Fn_belieberable

And once again they can point to no legislation whatsoever but rather their own policies
Grrrrrrrrr So Much for Mr. Reasonable

[Stu Jackson]

But the American and Sacramento Rivers in Sacramento are so pretty. Can ya limit the damage to just

FRANCHISE TAX BOARD
PO BOX 942867
SACRAMENTO CA 94267-0001

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by tomfl

While courts do expect tax collectors to use the best evidence they also will think it is reasonable for a tax collector to contact a boat owner who says his home port is in their state by painting it on their boat and telling the USCG the same thing and send the owner a bill. There is probable cause to suspect the boat is some how related to that state.

If the boat owner is told by the tax collector to send documentation to back up a claim the boat is not associated with the tax collector's state the courts will expect the boat owner to do that. If the case goes to court it is unlikely the boat owner will be liable for any tax, but I doubt the court would award any damages, even attorney's fees.

The courts have way too much to do to put up with someone trying to make a point.

Probable cause doesn't equal guilty.

I agree, that at this point the court would simply tell the OP to produce the documentation.

But, if CA took it further by putting a lien on the boat, then I believe the court would question why they did such without other supporting evidence. Especially when the boat is/was registered in WA (easy for CA to ascertain) and the owners address on the same 'probable cause' document clearly states WA. Then I believe there would be damages for legal fees.

[tomfl]

One of the many things I learned in the service is that clerks run the army. They use to say there are three ways to do things, the right way, the wrong way, and the army way.

What is it you expect to achieve by continuing your course of action. It would probably take an hour or so to xerox the bill of sail and some marina bills and send them to CA and get this mess over with.

My Mom use to say 'you have to pick your fights'. This is not a fight I would pick.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by DotDun

SNIP
then I believe the court

SNIP

I am sure the court would have a pre trial hearing with a law clerk telling the OP to give CA a copy of the documents they want and get it over with.

As for legal fees if the OP went a lawyer the lawyer would tell him the same thing, quit screwing around and send the documents to CA.

[BandB]

Wifey B:

I picture the BOE dude sitting in his office reading this thread and saying "This is even better than I ever imagined it could be...look at how riled up I have him...and the others. Who knew I had this ability. And I ever read something about the entire future of the world depending on the resolution of this. Something about democracies failing during history because the people didn't fight a low level government employee doing clerical work to the end.

By now he probably has brought the entire office to a halt with them all gathered around waiting to see your next post....

Ok, I know that's probably not the case, but I did have a funny picture of it.

I mean seriously people. Go fight some real battles of importance. Fight for jobs for people. Fight for food for the homeless. Fight against diseases throughout the world that we in the US just assume were long gone like Polio. You're giving this way more importance in your lives than it merits. I don't like that fast food screws up orders but that's not what killed the Roman Empire. Fight for the environment. Fight to end all war now and forever. Fight the truly evil people in the world, not a pencil pusher. Guess that's not the right term now. Not a keyboard clicker. You're making him a star. Next thing he'll be doing a you tube and have a zillion billion followers. Be called, Demon Damon the DOE Dude.

Like for real, lighten up. Have you checked your blood pressure? Bet it's through the roof.

[Chenega]

Originally Posted by BandB

Wifey B:



I picture the BOE dude sitting in his office reading this thread and saying "This is even better than I ever imagined it could be...look at how riled up I have him...and the others. Who knew I had this ability. And I ever read something about the entire future of the world depending on the resolution of this. Something about democracies failing during history because the people didn't fight a low level government employee doing clerical work to the end.



By now he probably has brought the entire office to a halt with them all gathered around waiting to see your next post....



Ok, I know that's probably not the case, but I did have a funny picture of it.



I mean seriously people. Go fight some real battles of importance. Fight for jobs for people. Fight for food for the homeless. Fight against diseases throughout the world that we in the US just assume were long gone like Polio. You're giving this way more importance in your lives than it merits. I don't like that fast food screws up orders but that's not what killed the Roman Empire. Fight for the environment. Fight to end all war now and forever. Fight the truly evil people in the world, not a pencil pusher. Guess that's not the right term now. Not a keyboard clicker. You're making him a star. Next thing he'll be doing a you tube and have a zillion billion followers. Be called, Demon Damon the DOE Dude.



Like for real, lighten up. Have you checked your blood pressure? Bet it's through the roof.

... Well said - move on and sail

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by BandB

SNIP

Have you checked your blood pressure? Bet it's through the roof.

As my Dad use to say 'I don't get ulcers, I give ulcers".

[BandB]

Originally Posted by tomfl

As my Dad use to say 'I don't get ulcers, I give ulcers".

Wifey B: "A Carrier"

[bornyesterday]

Originally Posted by BandB

Wifey B:

I picture the BOE dude sitting in his office reading this thread and saying "This is even better than I ever imagined it could be...look at how riled up I have him...and the others. Who knew I had this ability. And I ever read something about the entire future of the world depending on the resolution of this. Something about democracies failing during history because the people didn't fight a low level government employee doing clerical work to the end.

Hah. You picture the guy dealing with this having an office?
He probably shares a desk with two other drones.

Top third of his class works for Amazon - they pay no tax at all.
Bottom two thirds work for little corporations and gumment.
They know Amazon's guys are smarter than they are so why risk the public humiliation? That's what politicians are paid for.

Can't blame them wanting to justify their existence by getting the rest of you to take up the slack...

[montenido]

Well said, BandB. Let's all move on, do something worthwhile with our energies.

That said, I have read this thread with some interest. I have had to prove twice (so far) that my boat is now in Mexico, not Ventura, CA. Same proof both times, Temporary import permit, marina bills, etc. Annoying yes, but easy to deal with.

The tax guys are just doing what they do, which is get every penny they can for their state. Now, the tone of this thread is decidedly anti-California, which I get, as it is CA that is demanding the money. However, I am curious if CA is the only state that operates like this. I'd be surprised if other states were not equally as aggressive. Seems that DotDun has passionate knowledge/issues with California, but is based in Florida.

Cheers, Bill

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by montenido

Seems that DotDun has passionate knowledge/issues with California, but is based in Florida.

Cheers, Bill

There are several reasons I live in Florida and no longer in Socialist Republic of California.....

BTW, I'm against abuse of authority no matter where it is, it just seems CA has more than most states.

[fryewe]

Don't see why a copy of your WA registration for the first year of ownership (it does show the state tax you paid to WA for the purchase doesn't it?) and a picture of the boat with its CG reg numbers and WA registration decal wouldn't suffice for the CA folks.

Two different states may not charge you tax on the same purchase...if you have WA tax evidence as noted above send it and a copy of USCG rules for hailing ports by certified mail and tell them you consider the matter closed...and that the next letter from you will be from your attorney.

[xymotic]

montenido I LOVE California; let me put that out there

But the state taxes are very different; for one thing; with regard to the property tax issue I faced has anyone ever heard of any other State charging a city Government Property tax? Cus that seems bizarre to me

Washington's tax dept is actually probably worse; they make businesses charge different sales tax rates for different products; report and pay quarterly The charge sales tax on Gross sales and no or few deductions; so if your profit margin on a widget is 1% or 3000% -doesn't matter to WA they tax it the same which seems pretty darned unfair and they are pretty damned grouchy about it as well - And the state repeatedly likes to Jack up license registration fees despite having their ass handed to them in a referendum they 'don't get it' and keep raising them ever higher

On the plus side though pot will be legal in a few months so hopefully they will lighten the hell up when they are rolling in cash getting stoned all day long

And about the dumbest one I've seen so far was a $25 "congestion charge" to register my MOTORCYCLE

------
RE: Cali
OK; let me state that in my defense it's been crappy and raining here all day; and my Internet is flaky as well so yeah I may have spent a *little* more time to be a troublemaker than it would have taken to just capitulate; but here's my reply to the State of California BOE

---

Dear Mr. Tax-Man

Thank you for your call/email today as well (Cha-Ching!) ; I do indeed have a number of questions and concerns!

Unfortunately I am unable to complete your Authorization for Electronic Transmission of Data' BOE-82 form. There are a variety of reasons but the primary one is that The Electronic Transmission of Data' BOE-82 form asks me for Tax-payor identification information!

Therefore; Obviously I cannot complete your Authorization for Electronic Transmission of Data' BOE-82 form simply because I AM NOT A CALIFORNIA TAXPAYOR it is thus therefore not possible to fill out the Authorization for Electronic Transmission of Data' BOE-82 form that you electronically via email requested I complete in your electronically conveyed email explaining how you could not communicate with me electronically because the information requested does not exist. (sorry)

With regard to your actual email informing me that I am required to mail you a Authorization for Electronic Transmission of Data' BOE-82 form authorizing you to email me electronically;

As you will recall in our conversation today I merely asked you to point to ANY state or federal legislation that backed up California's outrageous claim that hailing port was required or in fact even "Suggested" to be linked to a tax Jurisdiction; location of a boat; Vessel Owner; an actual "port" or even a Navigable Body of Water. I have been unable to find any such authority or legislation; Much less how you feel that tying a boat's official name to California in any way would or could possibly incur a tax liability in Washington that's payable to California. I just don't "get it" so I do hope you can edumacate me on these really simple issues!?

That email explaining it to me is the email you assured me you would send; the email I was hoping would disabuse me of my suspicion that Washington and California were until recently different places?!? I mean Am I just confused? If so I apologize!

Instead you emailed me (electronically) a bunch of unrelated links that explain the State's arbitrary; capricious; unreasonable; illegal; inappropriate and grossly over-reaching internal policies and procedures. none of which at all remotely even begin to explain the underlying basic facts: Namely that California has no right to tax a Washington transaction - period. I'm somewhat distraught that the entire State of California has chosen not to believe me when I explained what happened up here; in Washington; When I bought my vessel for $6000; but I suppose there really isn't much I can do to assuage the state's incorrect; and frankly silly claim that hailing port = jurisdiction or much less "evidence."
.
Rather than emailing me to tell me you would be happy to email me as long as I snail mailed an email authorization for Electronic Transmission of Data' BOE-82 form; while simultaneously electronically communicating links to irrelevant internal policies and procedures instead of the information I'd asked for (and that you said you'd send me); would not it instead have been easier more expeditious and germane to just include links to any relevant laws passed by your legislature which entitle the State of California to violate the US as well as California & Washington State's Constitutions', rules and internal tax & marine regulations regarding this matter?

Cuz; you see to me; these seem like pretty basic issues.
You are certainly entitled to ask if the hailing port is accurate (despite the fact that it obviously isn't since "Hollywood" does not actually contain any significant Ports from which a boat could possibly "hail" From - but I digress)
.
I do sincerely question however the State's assertion that it is entitled to lien, seize, "require" or "demand" of me to do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to disprove your obviously false and completely baseless allegations and erroneous tax assessments and stop your illegal and incessant intimidation threats and harassment! I dispute the state's baseless allegations and assessments absolutely and unequivocally. Since "Hollywood" cannot possibly be construed to be a port capable of physically housing the Vessel Oceana; how can you even remotely claim a tax liability or jurisdiction therein?

Accordingly; most of the other documents you electronically communicated to me in your email explaining how you could not email me unless I mailed you an Electronic Transmission of Data' BOE-82 form to allow you to email me also don't really apply to this particular situation either.
.
For example; I certainly I have no desire to "appeal" & subject myself to your own extra-legal internal processes and rules to "appeal" a tax liability that you had ZERO authority to assert in the first place. So that link you sent is pretty unhelpful
.
As I have explained to you today; and explained to the State of California on numerous previous occasions; I put "Hollywood, CA" as the hailing port for merely for sentimental reasons because the boat does have ties to a famous Disney actor as well as Walt and Roy Disney. Please be advised in advance that when I renew the USCG Documentation next year; I intend to change that port yet again to "Magic Kingdom, CA" again because of the boat's historical ties to Disney (from the 1950's)

However I am curious if the "Magic Kingdom" is subject to a different tax rate? I do look forward to discussing the tax ramifications of the Magic Kingdom Change with your department all over again in 2015

As I further explained to you; "of course" I could quite easily "prove" that I have not lied to the state of California on numerous occasions when you initially unreasonably demanded that I pay you a completely fictitious and pulled-right-out-of-your-collective-asses $5000 tax liability on a $6000 boat who's ONLY connection to California is a vague association with Mickey Mouse, But as I explained to you today; Why the hell should I?

I have asked you to "prove" that the state has **ANY** authority to tax a Washington transaction and you seemed confident that there were "Nexus Issues" so Frankly asking what exactly those nexuses (Nexi?) are?That seems pretty reasonable to me!

If the state reasonably believes that Data obtained by the Coast Guard related to the name of the boat; is somehow more relevant than Data obtained from that very same document about for example my mailing address; again please just explain to me how I; as a Washington Resident; Who Purchased a boat in Washington State; which has been stored in Washington State for *DECADES* am "required" to comply with *ANY* California Law relating to your policies and procedures.

Yesterday I explained to you how much it pains me personally to enforce my own policy; I was exceptionally clear to you in my voicemail that any further communications from the State of California on this matter would result in a $1000 processing fee and that calling me constitutes your agreement to said fee; so thank you!

Unfortunately; as of today with penalties and fees the state's unpaid account balance is now over $2000 so you must pay your bill immediately or you will incur additional penalties and fees. Please also be aware that We only accept Wire transfers to a maximum amount of $100 therefore please timely make 20 $100 wire transfers to bring your account up-to-date. (electronic payment convenience fee may apply) Unfortunately I cannot change that policy; it's pretty dumb but what can I do?

As always please feel free to contact me; here at my home; aboard the Vessel Oceana; in Seattle Washington or of course you are welcome to contact me electronically (that is assuming that you might be able to reach a real person with such vast power and authority or of course if you can alter Authorization for Electronic Transmission of Data' BOE-82 form to allow it to be filled out accurately allowing additional electronic communications.)

As always feel free to contact me if you have any further questions or comments on this matter (after bringing your account current of course)

If you need further assistance please refer to our F.A.Q. located at http://ontheboat.com/suck-it.cali (requires Palm Pilot Version 2.6 to view)
You may also be interested to note that our website: Oceana | Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made. ~Robert N. Rose also contains a vast archive of information about ALL of oceana's travels up and down nearly an entire 1/4 the length of the Puget Sound From Olympia ALL THE WAY to Seattle that one time!) aside from their content; most of those photos are accompanied by electronic "proof" of location in the form of electronically timestamped and dates photographs; a great many of them show her berthed at various WA marinas and many are also geotagged with latitude and longitude coordinates

It really is too bad that your own investigation into the State's over-reaching and baseless allegations has not yielded the 'proof' that you are in no-way entitled to but feel that you must have
.

Sincerely

-Xxxxx Xxxxx

PS; as a special one-time courtesy to you; if you are able to call Swantown Marina in Olympia and determine that the boat was moored in Olympia like you claimed you would; you may offset a significant portion of your outstanding balance by immediately forwarding ONE additional waste-of-my-time ******** letter explaining how you've ended your three year long pointless fishing expedition/gross overreach of authority Witch-hunt. (But hurry offer available for a limited time only) * **


*Conditions may apply

** Terms may change without further notice