Yet another seacock question

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Can I have a link to that video? Cannot find it on howto.com.

The handle breaking problem was fixed 30+ years ago. Stop listening to "that guy" that keeps badmouthing these flanged seacocks. My 1985 boat came with the not flanged version of these seacocks. They didn't do the flanged ones back then. Other than when I first bought the boat with a couple of broken handles I have not had any problem with Marelon. I replaced those two seacocks in 1991 and those are still good today. I have been replacing the originals with flanged ones when I come across them at a good price or add a new seacock. I have 13 of them, most are now flanged. I love the fact that there is no possibility of corrosion from any cause. From the Forespar website I see that they do not claim ABYC compliance with the 849 series. I don't care. Properly installed they are as good or better than many of the maybe/maybe not bronze seacocks.

Having said that I am looking for one or two 1-1/2 inch flanged ones. So if anyone reading this has new or near new ones for sale send me a PM.

One thing I do agree with is the use of 5200 below the waterline. I like permanent. There is always a way to get them off.

The videos are on YouTube. Handles breaking off was reported right above in an earlier post. These seacocks don’t get better because you have them, they are sh|tty things that should be taken off the market.

[Wayne Gilham]

I have been told that a "stuck" Marelon valve can often be freed up by wrapping valve in a rag soaked in very hot water... Theoretically, the thermal coefficient of expansion is quite high for plastics, so the valves body expands and releases the stuck ball or shaft. Doesn't make sense - since the nylon material is supposedly glass-fiber filled, which would preclude expansion... but I've heard this trick from several old salts.

[ejs]

To answer the question you asked, look for loktite 55 thread sealing tape. It is really a string that you wrap a specific number of times. It was recommended by trudesign for their seacocks. It has the huge advantage that the right angle fittings can be repositioned for a time after assembly, without removing and starting over like you need to do with tape.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

Had the handle break off a few of those too. But each one of these was pretty old and had never been worked, so turning the handle was abnormally hard before breaking. Just open/close them often, and I'm sure you'll get a decade plus out of them.

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The videos are on YouTube. Handles breaking off was reported right above in an earlier post. These seacocks don’t get better because you have them, they are sh|tty things that should be taken off the market.

Matt says nothing about the age of those seacocks. Just because you say they are sh i tty does not make it so.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The videos are on YouTube. Handles breaking off was reported right above in an earlier post. These seacocks don’t get better because you have them, they are sh|tty things that should be taken off the market.

Well, I found Rod's youtube channel and there is no such video. While I was at it I found a Forespar video which states that the 849 series does satisfy ABYC requirements.

The only video that Rod's youtube channel has on Forespar seacocks shows one of their professional series Marelon seacocks exceeding ABYC requirements before failing. And it was not even installed correctly.

Soooo, I have to call BS on your comments. Prove me wrong.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Well, I found Rod's youtube channel and there is no such video. While I was at it I found a Forespar video which states that the 849 series does satisfy ABYC requirements.

The only video that Rod's youtube channel has on Forespar seacocks shows one of their professional series Marelon seacocks exceeding ABYC requirements before failing. And it was not even installed correctly.

Soooo, I have to call BS on your comments. Prove me wrong.

You claim the Forespar 849 pass ABYC tests because you have those installed and can’t live with the thought that your install isn’t just flawed but actually fails ABYC tests. Bless your heart

What I say is that the 849 does not pass ABYC tests and therefor is not ABYC rated, which is why Forespar has the 93 series which is ABYC rated. Show the ABYC rating approval or anything indicating it does meet ABYC.

Also, valves mounted on thru-hull fittings do not meet ABYC up to a certain diameter. All these videos from Rod Collins are on YouTube. Maybe look for Compass Marine which is his company.

[fourlyons]

Originally Posted by mbowser

Yikes, I have 1 3/4", 1 1-1/4", 2 1-1/2" in the 849 flanged series. I also have 1 pro series engine flush out valve. These all came with the boat as purchased (but uninstalled).



Fortunately, none are in a location where side loading would be an issue, but I do worry about breaking the handle off though. My previous boat came with a broken handle and it was inoperable until I thoroughly greased the valve when it was out of the water and even then it was a pain (I had to use a pair of pliers on the broken handle to turn it).



Unfortunately, the Secretary of the Treasury (wife) has put a moratorium on additional spending and has told me that I have to "make do", so I will have to add a regular lube schedule to my duties to hopefully keep them moving freely.

I installed these valves on my boat 16 years ago. 3/4" on up to 1 1/2". No broken handles or other issues. I cycle them all at least twice a year. And 4 years ago started lubing them at every haul out.

I don't like metal under water, my rudder fittings are going to carbon/fiberglass at the next haul out. Can I get a plastic prop and shaft ?

[George_SD]

Originally Posted by fourlyons

Can I get a plastic prop and shaft ?

Partially...made of Zytel Kiwiprop Home of the Kiwi feathering prop

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You claim the Forespar 849 pass ABYC tests because you have those installed and can’t live with the thought that your install isn’t just flawed but actually fails ABYC tests. Bless your heart

What I say is that the 849 does not pass ABYC tests and therefor is not ABYC rated, which is why Forespar has the 93 series which is ABYC rated. Show the ABYC rating approval or anything indicating it does meet ABYC.

Also, valves mounted on thru-hull fittings do not meet ABYC up to a certain diameter. All these videos from Rod Collins are on YouTube. Maybe look for Compass Marine which is his company.

Apparently you do selective reading to justify your position. Read my prior post again.

Forespar claims in a video that the 849 series does meet ABYC standards. 849 series are the flange mounts.

Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6VU6cLCLHc&t=12s

And the Compass Marine youtube channel is exactly who I was referring to.

[mbowser]

I had no intention of starting a ABYC standards holy war, but did order a forespar 93 series for the 3/4" 849 series I had planned on installing. The 3/4" did seem a bit on the flimsy side, but maybe I was comparing it to the 1-1/2" sitting next to it.

In the meantime though I do have 4 other seacocks to get installed and started moving forward with these. Forespar recommends lubing up the skin fitting, inserting it into through hull and then screwing the valve/seacock onto it from inside the boat. Most other authorities say the same thing (Nigel Calder, Compass Marine, etc...). This makes sense to me but I have seen a lot of installs on youtube that thread the skin fitting into the valve/seacock and then tighten/screw in the skin fitting from the outside. Most of these were bronze, but several were marelon as well. Many of these youtubers have gone on to cross oceans without sinking...

Out of the 4 seacocks (minus the 93 series I just ordered), I can screw in the valve/seacock using the recommended approach, but one of them is in such a tight location that I cannot spin it on from the inside (see photo, the handle hits the ). Clearly, the original seacock (also marelon) had to have been tightened from the outside, but now I'm worried that this will leak if I don't use the recommended approach. I don't know if this matters, but all of the skin fittings (including this one) are flush mount and not mushroom style.

Thoughts?

[Flying Monkey]

My understanding and experience is that the through-hull mushroom goes in with sealant, 5200 or 4200, or whatever your preference is. Hold it still and screw the seacock or flange on from inside.
The reason to hold the mushroom still is to not disturb the sealant.

If for some reason I could not turn the seacock or flange inside, then I would cut away material to allow turning, or move the through hull hole.
My two cents.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by mbowser

I had no intention of starting a ABYC standards holy war, but did order a forespar 93 series for the 3/4" 849 series I had planned on installing. The 3/4" did seem a bit on the flimsy side, but maybe I was comparing it to the 1-1/2" sitting next to it.

In the meantime though I do have 4 other seacocks to get installed and started moving forward with these. Forespar recommends lubing up the skin fitting, inserting it into through hull and then screwing the valve/seacock onto it from inside the boat. Most other authorities say the same thing (Nigel Calder, Compass Marine, etc...). This makes sense to me but I have seen a lot of installs on youtube that thread the skin fitting into the valve/seacock and then tighten/screw in the skin fitting from the outside. Most of these were bronze, but several were marelon as well. Many of these youtubers have gone on to cross oceans without sinking...

Out of the 4 seacocks (minus the 93 series I just ordered), I can screw in the valve/seacock using the recommended approach, but one of them is in such a tight location that I cannot spin it on from the inside (see photo, the handle hits the ). Clearly, the original seacock (also marelon) had to have been tightened from the outside, but now I'm worried that this will leak if I don't use the recommended approach. I don't know if this matters, but all of the skin fittings (including this one) are flush mount and not mushroom style.

Thoughts?

Remove the handle during installation.

[mbowser]

I don't think you can remove the handle on the 849 series (but maybe I'm wrong). Also, the flange hits as well.
I found this thread on forums.sailboatowners that discusses merits of turning the through hull vs. valve/seacock. Mainesail was in favor of tightening the through hull for flanged seacocks and claimed that many repudible builders install in this fashion:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/th...ck.1249923071/

[Flying Monkey]

I look at these kind of jobs from this perspective.
Replacing a seacock / through - hull is a job I will only do once on any particular boat. The old ones I took out were original, from 1978. I changed them in 2020.
Therefore, use the best equipment and best materials available.

With sealant. Moving sealant introduces air and pushes the sealant out. What I want is a solid chunk of sealant that will keep water out for 50 years.

These jobs are only proven good when they are in the water. Pulling a boat out for 10 days in the yard is a large amount of money. ... depending on the boat. My fat bottomed girl is 23 tons, long, fat, and far between... in comparison, hardware and sealant are not so expensive.
To test the installation requires destroying it. Maybe do a bench test with cheap, pvc pipe fittings. Cut it apart after it has cured, and see which method had the best seal?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by mbowser

I don't think you can remove the handle on the 849 series (but maybe I'm wrong). Also, the flange hits as well.
I found this thread on forums.sailboatowners that discusses merits of turning the through hull vs. valve/seacock. Mainesail was in favor of tightening the through hull for flanged seacocks and claimed that many repudible builders install in this fashion:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/th...ck.1249923071/

The handle removes, it’s just a sticker covering the screw.

If the flange also blocks turning then the whole design is flawed. It’s obvious you are fishing for an okay to just turn the fitting instead but imho that’s not the logical thing to do. So in your shoes, I would make very sure that the flange can’t turn because how did you test with the handle attached (?!) and if it’s really that messed up, I would close the hole and cut a new one.