Teak deck - is just sanding enough?

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by pjbori

Hi Greg, thanks for the extensive explanation. I agree that the deck itself doesn't look like it needs any repair, except maybe a wash. The cockpit however, is pretty badly in need of new caulking. I tried to take a better photo of a spot that exemplifies how the whole area looks like. As mentioned before, I would like to avoid sanding after all, as the teak is relatively thin already. So could I just mask off everything (the cockpit area is really not that big, my boat is a 28fter) and thereby avoid sanding afterwards?

The first thing to notice in the photo is that the head of the screw is maybe 1mm below the teak. This screw needs to be removed, the countersink and pilot need to be deepened, and then the screw replaced with a small amount of caulk on the threads (otherwise when water does get under the teak it will follow the screw through the deck). Remove any excess caulk above the screw while wet, allowing the plug to go as deep in the hole as possible. If as you say the teak is about 10mm thick then you can set the head of the screw at about half way through and still have both enough teak to hold a plug and to hold down the plank. With 4-5mm of plug on top the plug should hold up for a decade or more - but this will be the last time you refasten. My guess is that the deck will be worn enough everywhere that you will have to refasten the entire cockpit, but check that. The caulking is shot so that needs to be cut and reefed out of the seams, then recaulk. Again, it is probably something you should do to the entire cockpit. Once complete and with the lightest sanding it should look great and last a decade or more. When the time comes to replace the teak the deck should have the screw holes epoxied shut and then put down new teak with the vacuum bag method and ditch the screws. But that should be a long time off.

Just a note that the gray teak is oxidized wood. When washing hard or bleaching a deck the oxidation is removed and the underlying raw teak is exposed, with a small loss of wood. So when you see that fresh-sanded look you have removed a very thin layer of oxidized wood. And of course the newly exposed wood will oxidize fairly quickly, and if someone keeps cleaning the deck that way it will erode much faster than if the deck is left to be gray. BTW I only use detergent to remove specific stains, not as a general cleaning agent. Good ole Ivory soap powder is the thing to use if one must but water (fresh or salt) out of a hose or bucket without high pressure is the regular maintenance. Also a dilute mixture of Ivory soap and bleach in water is used for cleaning Sunbrella so pick up some Ivory soap powder.

Greg

[Tudorsailor]

Never pressure hose a teak deck unless you want to replace it in the near future. Crew do it on big boats to maintain the recently sanded look - but they do not worry about having to replace the teak

If you keep your boat in warm climes, then salt water all that you need with an occasional brush with a white scotchpad across the grain.
In colder water where you can get mould or fungus, many owners swear by Boracol as advised by Halberg Rassy.
TudorSailor

[CarlF]

When I had a boat with a teak deck, I always used the Teak Decking Systems products. These guys make teak decks for super yachts and know their stuff. I have a friend from Europe who whenever he visited would buy big jugs of their cleaner and take it home in his luggage (it's now available in Europe so he doesn't have to do this anymore)

I have used both the cleaner and the caulk and recommend both. They have a new sealer product that I haven't tried.

It's really best for the teak to let it go grey. Keeping it brown means too much sanding that will mean an earlier deck replacement. But the grey you get with the TDS cleaner is a lovely light brown/silver - with none of the black that comes from mildew and dirt getting into the grain. It's astonishing how much black mildew washes down the deck out of the grain when using the TDS cleaner.

When cleaning, your goal is to not wear away the soft teak between the grain forming ridges. I cleaned using a soft brush or mop always going crosswise to the grain.

This TDS guide is excellent - but remember it's aimed at the professional crew customers of Teak Decking System who are paid to constantly clean. I used the TDS cleaner four times a year and was happy with that frequency. Only took an hour.

https://www.teakdecking.com/how-to-e...-teak-decking/

Definitely recaulk the bad spots. Get the proper tools - reefing hook, seam sander, and bond breaker tape https://www.teakdecking.com/professional-tools/

[YANDINA]

Sanding a teak deck is punishable by keel hauling.
First read this article on maintaining teak decks.
http://www.yandina.com/TeakDeck.htm

[oceanluvr]

'Less is more' when it comes to a teak deck. As a previous poster suggested,as long as it is not leaking, do the minimum to extend the life of the existing deck. My 1969 International 500 yawl had teak decks that were sound, so we simply used a mild cleaner from time to time. Occasionally I reset a screw and replaced the bung. What ever you do, let's see some photos!

[mghorton]

[QUOTE=pjbori;3416989][QUOTE=sail sfbay;3416930][QUOTE=pjbori;3416417]

Originally Posted by pjbori

.....I recently acquired a beautiful old sailboat with a beautiful old teak deck.... I'm thinking: remove old caulking, sanding the surface and applying new caulking. Is this enough, or is there a step I'm missing?....

Thank you, I'm really stoked!! First sail was a 36 hour non-stop passage from northern-Sweden to Copenhagen so I'm at peace in the harbour for a few days, working on the teak

I would like to avoid having to apply something on a seasonal basis, which seems necessary with this product?

I second the recommendation on Semco. Works great and lasts almost a year. Water base means easy clean up and no oily cockpit seats, but it is still best to mask off edges as it will temorarily stain if not removed when wet.

[VChild]

Originally Posted by CarlF

When I had a boat with a teak deck, I always used the Teak Decking Systems products. These guys make teak decks for super yachts and know their stuff. I have a friend from Europe who whenever he visited would buy big jugs of their cleaner and take it home in his luggage (it's now available in Europe so he doesn't have to do this anymore)

I have used both the cleaner and the caulk and recommend both. They have a new sealer product that I haven't tried.

It's really best for the teak to let it go grey. Keeping it brown means too much sanding that will mean an earlier deck replacement. But the grey you get with the TDS cleaner is a lovely light brown/silver - with none of the black that comes from mildew and dirt getting into the grain. It's astonishing how much black mildew washes down the deck out of the grain when using the TDS cleaner.

When cleaning, your goal is to not wear away the soft teak between the grain forming ridges. I cleaned using a soft brush or mop always going crosswise to the grain.

This TDS guide is excellent - but remember it's aimed at the professional crew customers of Teak Decking System who are paid to constantly clean. I used the TDS cleaner four times a year and was happy with that frequency. Only took an hour.

https://www.teakdecking.com/how-to-e...-teak-decking/

Definitely recaulk the bad spots. Get the proper tools - reefing hook, seam sander, and bond breaker tape https://www.teakdecking.com/professional-tools/

Agree 100% !!!

Gently clean it but let it progress to it's natural silver (we don't call it grey).
The folks at TDS are wonderful and their products are unsurpassed.
If you feel you must have that perpetual golden brown look then please don't achieve this by constant sanding. Sand once and then use Semco sealer. The look is gorgeous but be advised that you will be constantly re-applying multiple times per year. It wears off quickly and will be blotchy on all the walkways and wherever dock lines touch it. It is easy to touch up but is much more work than just letting it progress to its natural SILVER patina.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by YANDINA

Sanding a teak deck is punishable by keel hauling.
First read this article on maintaining teak decks.
How to maintain and caulk teak decks on boats.

I see that you don't mention bond breaker in your tutorial. However, everything else you recommend in this link is top shelf. Not mentioning bond breaker is a critical oversight. Bond breaker must be layed in the bottom of the seams before applying the caulking.

Adhesion of the caulking to the bottom of the groove will initiate and accelerate failure of the teak-caulking bond on the sides of the channel.

Visualize a full level seam cross-section. Then imagine the wood shrinking stretching the caulking like a rubber band. The top of the caulking will slighly depress. Since the bottom of the caulking is adhered to the teak it cannot. This will pull all the caulking downward. Now you have extra tension on the upper edges of the caulking that are adhered to the teak corners of the channel. The added tension contributes to pealing the caulking from the sides of the teak channel.

Over time hot and cold cycles shorten the life of a sealed seam without bond breaker. Hence use bond breaker before paying the seam.

Hope this all makes sense.

[s/v Jedi]

There’s plenty of contrasting info in this thread already so I’m throwing in another bite: a lesson learned from a shipwright a long time ago: when teak is less than an inch thick, it looses its ability to withstand weathering as it can’t hold on to its natural oils. To keep it up it requires a quick re-oiling every 6 months.

Me? Plastic fantastic

[Talk Story]

I opted for cetol gloss my cockpit teak after re caulking and sanding. It is work, but between the wood in the cockpit, swim platform and bowsprit it is time to start preserving it, the boat is 30 years old.

Tape off all the teak, the black stuff is quite messy. And you will be surprised at how much you need of the black stuff.

Get a couple size razor blades to cut the tape. Good luck!

[YANDINA]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

I see that you don't mention bond breaker in your tutorial. However, everything else you recommend in this link is top shelf. Not mentioning bond breaker is a critical oversight. Bond breaker must be layed in the bottom of the seams before applying the caulking.

Adhesion of the caulking to the bottom of the groove will initiate and accelerate failure of the teak-caulking bond on the sides of the channel.

Visualize a full level seam cross-section. Then imagine the wood shrinking stretching the caulking like a rubber band. The top of the caulking will slighly depress. Since the bottom of the caulking is adhered to the teak it cannot. This will pull all the caulking downward. Now you have extra tension on the upper edges of the caulking that are adhered to the teak corners of the channel. The added tension contributes to pealing the caulking from the sides of the teak channel.

Over time hot and cold cycles shorten the life of a sealed seam without bond breaker. Hence use bond breaker before paying the seam.

Hope this all makes sense.

Over a period of 14 years I found that there was no difference in survival rate of caulks with a bottom tape to those without.

I believe that it is more important to make sure that the bottom of the groove is square, not a "V". With a "V" the tension stresses at the bottom of the "V" are magnified and start peeling away whereas if the cross section at the bottom is the same width as the area above it the stresses across the bottom are the same as the rest of the caulk.

[YANDINA]

Originally Posted by Talk Story

I opted for cetol gloss my cockpit teak after re caulking and sanding. It is work, but between the wood in the cockpit, swim platform and bowsprit it is time to start preserving it, the boat is 30 years old.

Tape off all the teak, the black stuff is quite messy. And you will be surprised at how much you need of the black stuff.

Get a couple size razor blades to cut the tape. Good luck!

Be VERY careful using Cetol and related chemicals.

Cetol in particular will break down some caulking compounds turning them into a sticky black goo that cannot be cleaned up.

Do a test patch and leave it sit a few weeks before destroying a whole deck.

[timeout2]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Not mentioning bond breaker is a critical oversight. Bond breaker must be layed in the bottom of the seams before applying the caulking.

Adhesion of the caulking to the bottom of the groove will initiate and accelerate failure of the teak-caulking bond on the sides of the channel.

Over time hot and cold cycles shorten the life of a sealed seam without bond breaker. Hence use bond breaker before paying the seam.

Working slowly on redoing my 1985 seams. No tape, and it lasted 35 years. Conclusion? Bond Breaker tape is invented by marketing people.

Redoing seams is an onerous task. Certainly a learned skill. Start with a small unobtrusive area. I Used 60 grit to remove bulk of seam compound. 80 grit to finish. I plan on taping the edges of the seams moving forward. Too much sanding with un-taped seams and a putty knife.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

For maintenance never use ScotchBrite, brushes, or even bronze wool: they all dig out the grain and shorten the deck's life. The old (and current) tall ships use half of a coconut shell and seawater to scrub the decks (possibly some soap). The shell is very hard and cut flat so it is riding on the hard grain and never digs into the soft grain. That is why those decks are so smooth. I will use a soft sponge and detergent on my decks when needed but mostly I just rinse them off. The best way to clean a teak deck is to do some hard sailing in seawater... Also, stay ahead of the wet spots around plugs and along seams.

Greg

What he says.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by timeout2

Working slowly on redoing my 1985 seams. No tape, and it lasted 35 years. Conclusion? Bond Breaker tape is invented by marketing people.

Redoing seams is an onerous task. Certainly a learned skill. Start with a small unobtrusive area. I Used 60 grit to remove bulk of seam compound. 80 grit to finish. I plan on taping the edges of the seams moving forward. Too much sanding with un-taped seams and a putty knife.

I think that something as inexpensive and a simple to use as bond breaker tape that significantly reduces the peel mode on the caulk-teak bond on the side of the seam is a good thing. Particularly in light of the fact that separation of the caulk from the teak is the primary failure mode. Goes in the common sense category.