Securing wiring inside mast

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by chouliha

That is where the second pvc pipe terminated. 2 pvc pipes. One to the masthead and the second to the spreaders. Exit holes on mast were drilled slightly larger than wires.

Just to clarify the extra holes in the mast to insert the copper wire hook were sized to accept the pop rivet. Many riggers use a similar system.

Cheers

Chuck

That makes sense. Now I understand.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

I was reluctant to drill extra or larger holes in the mast in fear of weakening it....
. I couldn't bring myself to drill any more holes than necessary, so I did it the hard way (as I described above). If you don't mind the extra holes, Chuck's method will be a piece of cake. If you worry about the extra holes, you could try my method first and resort to Chuck's if it becomes too difficult.

I'm with you on the extra holes, but I could try to do it using you method and drill the extra hole if it proves to be too hard...

Originally Posted by chouliha

That is where the second pvc pipe terminated. 2 pvc pipes. One to the masthead and the second to the spreaders. Exit holes on mast were drilled slightly larger than wires.

Just to clarify the extra holes in the mast to insert the copper wire hook were sized to accept the pop rivet. Many riggers use a similar system.

Cheers

Chuck

I got it. So I guess by filling the second hole you close the gap and minimizes the weakness, but I'll try to use only one pipe and drill a hole on the pipe for the spreader and steaming lights wire exit. At the spreader, I'll use the second hole to also secure the conduit - double pops. 1 1/2" electrical conduit (6 wires + coax). I'll drill every 5 feet (42ft mast).
Thank you guys.

Hey inspectr, I kinda kidnapped your post, but I hope you also got something out of it

[chouliha]

With 2 pvc tubes there are actually 3 holes in line. One hole for each pvc pipe and a center hole between them for the copper wire hook that pulls them up tight to the inside of the mast so you can drill and pop rivet. The center hole is then filled with a pop rivet. The 3 holes stops at the spreaders where the steaming light radar etc is located. Then it’s 2 holes every 4 to 6 feet to the top of the mast.

[Paul Tonkin]

Originally Posted by OS2Dude

Outside the mast is easy, there are several methods.

1) The one we use is to detach the halyard from the sail and run it to a connection point on a handrail or lifeline and pull tight. Ours are metal triangles on strapping attached with Velcro. If they are far enough fore/aft, the halyards can not flog the mast or the shrouds.

2) Another is to slacken the halyard and throw it around the spreader, then tighten it back up. This holds the halyard away from the mast and can be done even while the halyard is attached to the sail. This is what I did on my old O'Day 23.

3) A less reliable method is to run a piece of twine or bungee cord from the shrouds to the halyards and pull them away from the mast. For a shorter mast, this may be enough to keep the halyards from flogging the mast most of the time, but is not usually good if the mast is very tall or the wind is blowing at a high speed.

I don't think you understand the question. It is not about securing halyards.

[Capn Jimbo]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

Linda,

With halyards inside the mast, I prefer plastic conduit to protect the wiring.

Here is a past thread on this topic where I described a simple method I have used to install conduit inside the mast without the need for fasteners.

In case that is useful.

Cheers! Bill

How does plastic conduit protect the wiring? Does it need "protection"? I do understand that the goal is simply to avoid mast slapping, not protection per se.

[Seasic]

Ok I have my mast down and I took some pics on how the conduit is run and on how the wire is held up which is what I think the OP was looking for,.

this is a 23 yrs old original mast on a hunter 376, it already had conduit, one on either side, one went to steaming/deck light, one to mast head anchor light/wind transducer and vhf.

Wires are just tied in a knot outside the conduit at the top of each run.

Conduit is just PVC split down the side and slipped over rails? I dont know what you call them, there part of the mast, no screws holding conduit or wire.
This is a sparz (seldon now I think not sure) mast 59' with topping lift/main halyard/spiniker halyard/and jib halyatd running thru it.

Hope this help!

[sailorladd]

If you use cable ties, dont over tighten them as it can rupture the wire covering and could even crush or break the copper strands...perhaps put a few turns of plastic on the wire bundle where you would put the cable ties... also some folks may take a shuttlecock (badminton) and insert the wires through the middle of this and it will stabilize the wires inside and make less noise if any wires exit the must a dab of dark coloured silicone will keep the rain and moisture out ...good luck

[Tmint]

I recently rewired the mast on my 1976 Dufour 31 while it was down in the mast yard for new rigging. I borrowed a few tricks from my previous life as an electrician. The existing wiring (from the early 90's) was inside foam pipe insulation to the top of the mast. The rigger I was working with suggested installing PVC conduit riveted to the mast, but I hated the idea of the rivets inside the conduit, chafing on the wire. PVC conduit fastened to the mast with adhesive has been known to come loose, especially in hot climates. On a previous boat I used foam of mast diameter around the cable bundle every few feet, combined with 120 degree opposed tie wraps above the spreaders where the foam would not pass. The worked great because there were no internal halyards.

The Dufour has internal halyards, so the wire needed more protection. Because the cables were twisted twisted together inside the foam pipe insulation I could not pull out one wire to add additional, so I pulled out the foam and all, pulled in new, larger (1") and better pipe insulation, taping the ends together with wide, heavy black tape designed for the purpose. I then pulled in new wires and a pull line (twine) for future use, being sure to not twist the new cables.

At the top of the mast I installed a marine rated PVC 4-0 box from Lowe's. It was laid flat facing up on the horizontal part of the mast head. The wire and twine were brought out the top of the mast head, and directly into the back of the j-box. I used a plastic NM connector for strain relief, tied a loose overhand knot in the lighting cable, and tied the twine to a washer inside the box. It should never slide back down the mast. I mounted an LED tri-color/anchor light on the box cover, and secured it to the box.

[jeff356]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

I was reluctant to drill extra or larger holes in the mast in fear of weakening it. I used the existing (smallish) hole that was already there at the spreader level and ran a "wire-passer snake thingy" (don't know the name...) and pulled the wires through the existing hole without too much trouble.

Chuck's suggestion of drilling larger holes to hold the PVC pipe in place with copper wire inside the mast when drilling and riveting sounds like it will make the job much easier. I couldn't bring myself to drill any more holes than necessary, so I did it the hard way (as I described above). If you don't mind the extra holes, Chuck's method will be a piece of cake. If you worry about the extra holes, you could try my method first and resort to Chuck's if it becomes too difficult.

Have a Seldon furling mast and am adding radar and deck light right above the first spreader and wondering if plugged access holes are a normal thing to easily run cables through the conduit or if the holes you mentioned were made by you or a PO? On the port side I have 2 small diameter wires exiting at the deck plate, not like the large diameter cables on the starboard side.

I have conduits on either side of the mast in the rear of the forward pocket (non furler) section of the mast.

Jeff

[sethjohns]

I do like the blocks of foam concept best. If you use closed cell flotation foam, if the boat were to turtle in a knockdown the flotation will add a leveraged writing moment to the mast.

[TonyDove]

I have no first hand knowledge of this solution … it came up during chat over drinks in a yacht club – so reliability is suspect. Anyway, the basic solution was, as has been mentioned, plastic conduit (lightest possible to avoid unnecessary weight aloft) but with an additional twist … a small hole in the conduit every few meters and a squirt of an expanding foam to prevent any possibility or rattling.

Happy Sailing

[pwillems]

I just did both my masts (very big schooner) running conduits all the way up. I'll share my method as I feel it was very easy and it may help others.

With masts lying down, I prepared a length of PVC pipe cutting large holes at the required positions where wires would need to be fished and exit mid mast. I then positioned the mast so that gravity would hold the inserted PVC in position up against the ridge formed by the sail track in the inside of the mast. When everything was ready, I simply slid the pipe up the mast putting a glob of adhesive (liquid nails) every meter of so, therefore smearing it as the pipe was pushed up the mast.

I let this sit for 24 hours so the adhesive would go off, and then, using minimal pressure drilled through the mast and PVC (now reasonably secured inside the mast) every meter in preparation for rivetting once all the wires were run.

I then ran all my wires and once happy everything was finished off properly, popped a rivet in my pre-drilled holes to make sure it never fails.

I'm not sure how long the adhesive will last, but it does not matter, it's purpose was only to secure the conduit during drilling and wire insertion. The rivets are the ultimate fasteners.

[Briggers]

I hear what you are saying but I need to replace my VHF cable, sadly it is taped together with the rest of the cables running up the mast.
It’s impossible to extract it and pull a new one in and it’s almost impossible to run a fresh cable, short of laying down the mast.
There must be a better a way..

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by jeff356

Have a Seldon furling mast and am adding radar and deck light right above the first spreader and wondering if plugged access holes are a normal thing to easily run cables through the conduit or if the holes you mentioned were made by you or a PO? On the port side I have 2 small diameter wires exiting at the deck plate, not like the large diameter cables on the starboard side.

I have conduits on either side of the mast in the rear of the forward pocket (non furler) section of the mast.

Jeff

Jeff, I'm not sure I understand your question. I used the same holes in the mast where the old wires exited. I made sure I lined up the holes in the PVC pipe to match these holes. It was fairly easy to run the wires afterwards, especially with the mast on saw horses.

Another thing I did was replace the old (pre-LED) wire with much thinner wire for the nav lights as all the lights are LED.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Briggers

I hear what you are saying but I need to replace my VHF cable, sadly it is taped together with the rest of the cables running up the mast.
It’s impossible to extract it and pull a new one in and it’s almost impossible to run a fresh cable, short of laying down the mast.
There must be a better a way..

With the wires in a PVC pipe you don't have to bundle or tape them together. It's pretty easy to pull and replace one wire this way. Some dish soap on the new wire gives it enough lubrication to slide past the other wires in the PVC conduit.