Reinforcing a keel with a deep sump

[jpendoley]

I have a Pearson 424-the design has encapsulated ballast forward of a very deep sump. The safe blocking spots are in front of the sump (beneath the encapsulated ballast) and aft of the sump where there is either very many layers of glass or more encapsulated lead. Supporting or lifting the boat beneath the sump will damage the sump cracking the relatively thin keel in that spot. Now that my keel has been damaged and thoroughly repaired, I'd like to further reinforce this area for two reasons:

1. In the event of a grounding on the sump it would be nice to know I wasn't in danger of a catastrophic failure, More importantly...

2) I want to launch and retrieve my boat from a trailer ramp. I store at a diy yard and they don't have a travel lift but they do have a wide and deep ramp. They also let you do all your own work which is a necessity on my budget. Though the keel has been correctly repaired, its still not strong enough nor was it ever strong enough to support beneath the sump-that makes hauling via a trailer difficult or impossible as the sump is very long-like four to five feet long- getting it on a trailer while in the water is extraordinarily difficult because of the fairly small areas on the keel that are safe to lift under. Haul store and launch is 3500 at my diy yard vs 7200 in a full service yard with a travel lift. That and the fact that I can do my own work is compelling.

My question is how to reinforce the keel from the inside so that the keel can be supported throughout its length either on a trailer or on blocks in the yard. The sump is deep and wide so access is conceivable for glass work and I do have a fair bit of experience. I'm just not sure how to structure the repair. Floors? An encapsulated foam base? Would love to hear suggestions.

[s/v Jedi]

Not sure how good the access is, but I think you could use G10 bar stock from McMaster to build a grid on the bottom. I think the G10 something like 3/8” thick and 2” wide. Glue these standing on their sides down on the bottom of the sump, then use fiberglass tape to tab them in place.

Finish with a couple of coats of epoxy barrier coat to seal it.

If you think the fiberglass skin itself is too thin, then I would add more fiberglass on the outside and do the whole bottom of the keel if you can do that. With a layer of 1708.

[SailingHarmonie]

Sorry to be posting off the point of your question, but...

Haul and launch for $7200!? For a Pearson 365? WTF????

I am completely confused.

The last place we hauled our boat charged us $14/foot for haul, block and launch. For a 37 foot boat that would be $518. And then $2/foot for idle laydays. You could haul the boat, store it for 3 months, and then launch it, and still leave for less than $7200. And that is a DIY friendly yard too. And in Florida, not known for boat service bargains.

What the f-en hell am I missing????? I feel like I am seeing number off by a factor of ten, at least.

[jpendoley]

Harmony $7200 includes winter storage that’s Hall store for the winter and launch in the spring. boat is a 424 not a 365. winter storage in New England runs from October through the following May. That also includes on stepping the mast and re-stamping it in the spring.

[s/v Jedi]

Yes, I pay $1,700 for haulout and launch and that is a 64’ boat with double sling aft. It also includes cleaning the bottom.

[maine-cruiser]

For reference I pay around $95/ft for haul, bottom wash, store and launch in Boston. Many people are DIY at this place.

Bill

[Pete7]

What sort of volume are we talking about? Off the top of my head would be to fill it with concrete and glass the top over once set.

Pete

[jpendoley]

Pete, I would estimate 16 ft.³. It’s a deep long chasm. The boat displace is 22,000 pounds, so I would not want to add a ton more weight down low. How thick would the concrete need to be? How do you know? Or and would a deep wall of epoxy saturated with chopped bosc do the same thing with less weight?

[jpendoley]

chopped biax

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by jpendoley

Pete, I would estimate 16 ft.³. It’s a deep long chasm. The boat displace is 22,000 pounds, so I would not want to add a ton more weight down low. How thick would the concrete need to be? How do you know? Or and would a deep wall of epoxy saturated with chopped bosc do the same thing with less weight?

Time for pictures; 16 ft^3 is huge

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by jpendoley

Pete, I would estimate 16 ft.³. It’s a deep long chasm. The boat displace is 22,000 pounds, so I would not want to add a ton more weight down low. How thick would the concrete need to be? How do you know? Or and would a deep wall of epoxy saturated with chopped bosc do the same thing with less weight?

Early keels in small yachts were filled with steel punches in concrete or the budget version, scrapyard confetti But 16Cu ft is way too much, Google suggests it would add 1 Tonne.

It would make a great location for an additional water tank if you can retain some space. Doesn't have to be used, but on a long passage nice to have.

Pete

[Spot]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Time for pictures; 16 ft^3 is huge

Pictures would be awesome. From our friends at Pearson:
https://www.pearsonyachts.org/models/pearson-424.html#

[Sailorichiban]

An interesting discussion, I guess a very unusual problem.

[Searles]

Having dealt with a similar soft unrenforced keel area ,we had a 1/2 inch stainless steel shoe made up with sides reaching up about 6 inches on the sides ,in our case the shoe was full length and partly up the stem ,set in epoxy bog and fastened through the sides ,this shoe was for protection from coral grounding,it worked fine .⛵️⚓️

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Searles

Having dealt with a similar soft unrenforced keel area ,we had a 1/2 inch stainless steel shoe made up with sides reaching up about 6 inches on the sides ,in our case the shoe was full length and partly up the stem ,set in epoxy bog and fastened through the sides ,this shoe was for protection from coral grounding,it worked fine .⛵️⚓️

It worked fine meaning you tested it?