Plea- Please vet contractors, at least a little

[kayakerChuck]

I'm one of those contractors- marine canvas.

More and more of my work is fixing mistakes from other shops. Usually, these other shops are not booked as far out as I am and have lower prices than I do. I'm all for getting things done soon, and I understand the value of a dollar.

There might be reasons I'm booked farther out and charge more than some of the other shops in my area. I'm not the most expensive.

Today I finished the repair work on new canvas on a gorgeous Bermuda 40. Nice owners, and they are not price sensitive. The canvas I found was a mess- poor fit, poor design, had been recut at least twice, and had repair patches on top of repair patches. The customer should never have booked with the previous company, and should not have accepted the completed job. The customer wants to get at least some use from this batch of canvas & asked what I could do. I typically refuse this kind of work.

The correct answer is to toss it in the dumpster. If the job is to improve what is there, I suggested one new window and some re-work. $1000 in repairs later and the customer is happy. He will use this stuff for a year, and I'll build him new, proper, professional, stuff next year.

He's got about $8,000 in poor fitting, poorly designed canvas on his NICE boat.

There are 5 good canvas shops in the area, and this is a job that any of us would do for about $8k. NICELY- the first time.

All of us have pictures of past jobs in our phones/tablets/whatevers. We're happy to show pictures! Sadly, most of us will no longer provide referrals.

Please- check out who you hire.

[Sailmonkey]

I recently went through this. Although we just had our canvas replaced by the same shop that had done a great job 10 years prior. Sadly the good people had left. The first try the dodger was a terrible fit, they even tried to fix their mistakes and made it look worse. 2nd time around and all turned out well.

I outright rejected the first round of canvas. The dodger was completely re-done.

[Knotical]

Appreciate your concern for a Bermuda 40, I would be concerned too.

Folks select vendors/workers for variety or reasons - quick work, bottom dollar, location, referral etc.

All contractors promise high quality work - if their work cannot be examined how does one select a contractor? What is holding a contractor from showing his previous “good work” photos? Someone may not be cheap because he is subpar, maybe they are just trying to get more work in a competitive field or maybe their volume makes up for a slightly lower price.

I have come across all kinds of contractors in my life so far - including cheap ones who do good work and expensive ones with subpar work.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, kayackerChuck,

What questions, specifically would you like to be asked? besides seeing pics of previous work? Suppose you were a new boat owner, what should such a person find out before approaching your business or one like it?

Thanks for helping, mate, it sounds like your heart and your business sense are in the right place.

Ann

[chris mac]

I went thru this alot prior to moving aboard. I was a contractor in house building/renovation.
Many customers that passed on my quote due to price or timeframe ended up contacting me to fix or redo what another contractor screwed up. It was frustrating for both the customer and me
On the customer side, what I do to qualify the contractor is mostly dialog. (Pics of Previous work is great too) I talk them thru the project and Guage their responses. Offer up possible problems/changes and see what their solutions are. Experience will allow them to adapt and solve, and some of the better professionals I've hired are actually excited by the challenge. If you only get vague answers or brush offs, it's a possible indicator that they are more talk then walk.
There are a lot of really good salesmen out there though, and it can be hard to read them.

[GordMay]

The classic Venn diagram:

[CDR Smith]

If the fabricator one is considering will not provide referrals (I assume you meant references) how is one to realistically vett them? It's a conundrum.

"All of us have pictures of past jobs in our phones/tablets/whatevers. We're happy to show pictures! Sadly, most of us will no longer provide referrals.

Please- check out who you hire."

[ArmyDaveNY]

One question I would ask is what issues have you encountered in the past and how did you solve them. When I was in sales, I would be sure include as a referral a person who had a problem and was happy with the fix.

I recognize that there are always unexpected problems that can pop up. One of the important things is how the contractor fixes and deals with the problem.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The classic Venn diagram:

During Covid, getting canvas work done has been a massive challenge!!! so those venn diagrams are sort of out the window!!! (everything ends up in that "will take time to deliver" spot regardless of the quality)

It took us 18 months in our area to get a bimini made for our boat (GTA). Nothing fancy, no full enclosure, just a bimini with a joining piece. Everyone is backed up with orders and the really the really good canvas makers are backed up even further. The "best guy" in our area is booked all the way to 2023! In the end I went with a company (with reservations) that I've used before and they actually came through with a decent bimini

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by chris mac

There are a lot of really good salesmen out there though, and it can be hard to read them.

This is so true.

[billgewater]

Is doing canvas work a means of "awning" a good income? Enough to put you in stitches?

[kayakerChuck]

Sadly, I no longer am willing to give out the contact info of private customers. There are too many weirdos out there now and I don't want to hassle good, existing customers. It works out for me because I rarely take work from cold calls. I do LOTS of work for local dealerships, and I'm willing to give out contact info for some boat salespeople and service managers. Service managers really, REALLY don't want call backs from their customers. Any shop that does work for a decent service department is probably good.

Ask if the contractor is willing to show some past jobs. I can say I did the boats in wells 34, 96 and 82 at such & such a marina- go check them out.

Ask me what happens if there is a problem. I don't offer a warranty. I want happy customers. If it's my fault, or a material problem, I'll fix it. Period. If the customer picked up his boat from me with new canvas, took the boat home, and loaded it full of his daughter's furniture, then stretched my cover over everything and towed the boat to Chicago, I will agree that the cover has had 2 dozen holes worn through it in 4 days. I will not fix it. It's not my fault that a $1000 custom cover was used in place of a $30 tarp. (true story!)

Does the contractor want an immediate deposit? Generally, I'm booked out a couple of months. Right now, I don't know when I can get materials. Either way, I don't want to be sitting on a customer's money for months. I want 50% when I order materials, and the balance upon completion. If a contractor needs a deposit to "put you on the calendar", be wary. Maybe not run, but be wary. At my end, if a customer does not come through with the deposit I can always fill my calendar, or take a much needed break & go sailing!

(I hope this is lucid. It's been a long day of hauling & winterizing my boat. Sadness.)

[jtsailjt]

When my boat was hauled out last winter I had a hard top put over the cockpit. Since the boatyards canvas shop couldn’t handle all the canvas work my service manager had called and reserved a spring time slot with a local independent canvas shop to build my enclosure so it would be done in time for launch in early June. In early April we met and talked about details and agreed on a price and I gave them the $1900 down payment they asked for. They had to finish up another job before starting mine so were delayed a few weeks. Then they patterned the job and began work. But progress was slow because they only worked on my job mornings and a upholstery job afternoons. They said they wouldn’t work on boats in the water so I delayed my launch date. On July 7 they brought my enclosure to the boat and it fit so horribly that they said they would have to start all over to “re-engineer and re-pattern” the whole thing but “from a business perspective” had other jobs they needed to focus on but would redo my enclosure next winter when it was hauled out. I told them I didn’t plan to haul out next winter or even keep the boat in the area. They took their pitiful collection of sunbrella off my boat and I haven’t heard from them since. They blamed the problems on it having been a windy day when they patterned it but I pointed out that they were the ones who chose which day to do it. I’ve asked for my down payment back via phone message and email but still no response. In August I found another shop and the morning he was supposed to start work he was in a car accident and got so banged up he was going to fall far behind on other work he had in progress so said he couldn’t do mine. I finally found a canvas shop that built my enclosure during September. But what an ordeal! This week my best friend from collage who’s a lawyer is writing the first place a polite letter asking for my down payment back and lacking an acceptable response will file a lawsuit to get it. First time in my life I’ve ever had to do that but I’m not willing to just shrug and walk away from $1900 that I got nothing for in return.

[4arch]

From a customer's perspective, when I decide to contract out a project and finally have the research, time, money, and mental momentum aligned to get the work off the ground, the last thing I want to hear when I contact a prospective contractor is "I'm booked solid, call me back in 3 months". I'm not necessarily unwilling to endure such a wait, but I need assurance that the contractor is going to come through in the end and isn't just trying to make me go away.

As far as canvas work, my impression is that a lot of boaters see it as a necessary evil rather than as something that can add to (or at least not detract from) the aesthetics of their boat. Many don't have an eye for what a nicely designed bimini or dodger looks like and some may not even care so long as it keeps them shaded and dry. People also often get locked into the design installed by the boat's original owner as replacing pieces incrementally and to match existing is perceived to be cheaper than redoing and redesigning everything at once. There are even plenty of biminis and dodgers that are designed well enough aesthetically but have poorly executed detailing that causes leaks, chafe, UV damage, and sagging. But the average customer probably has little eye for these details, and they would not be all that evident when comparing pictures of one canvas maker's work to another.

Having more marine canvas professionals participate actively in this and other boating forums I actually believe would be a big help in better educating potential customers about good canvas design and detailing. Often canvas threads focus on how expensive it is or when things go wrong so I think we need more voices chiming in to discuss what can make things go right and how boaters can get the best value (not necessarily lowest price) when having canvas work done on their boats.

[dougweibel]

No bones to pick with the OP. It is good advice to make an effort to choose good vendors, though sometimes more difficult than it sounds.

We have met so many NEW inexperienced cruisers in the last 24 months. We met two couples just last week who had sold their homes and bought boats (one sold their home before they even found a boat to buy) with very limited experience, and both have been having major problems with vendors and repairs. I often think many people should be a little more open minded about what they can do themselves.

When we first started cruising the first time we needed canvas work done instead of going to a vendor I bought a sewing machine. My wife, who had sewing experience, was pretty skeptical that we could do quality canvas work. It is pretty different than sewing clothes. But I found it pretty easy to learn by looking closely at lots of good canvas work and asking lots of questions. We have made our own sail covers, dodger, enclosure and other stuff. Saved a ton of money. Didn't fabricate stuff as quickly as a pro would but didn't have to wait to get work done either.