Planning the KISS Boat

[atoll]

Originally Posted by KISS

noted



Putting another hole in the boat below the waterline (just to avoid having to install a $100 pump) is stupid and unnecessary.

what you need to realise is that a boat is just a "BIG HOLE " in the water,adding a couple more, if done properly really doesn't add any more risk in the grand scheme of things

[KISS]

Originally Posted by Panope

A simple water system.

Two main tanks built into hull (metal boat). Tank fill under sink (white cap).
One, single lever tank selector valve (yellow handle).
One whale foot pump.
One filter.
One drain tank (blue jug. 7 gal.).

Empty jug by dumping over side of boat. If weather stormy, dump in cockpit.
Log "jug dumps" to keep track of remaining water supply.

Steve

Thank you! That's very helpful. I like the idea of draining the grey water into a portable tank and dumping overboard, instead of through the hull. Beautifully KISS.

FYI, I had considered using a drop in wash basin as a sink, and just dumping that overboard after each use, but decided that could be messy (easy to spill), so abandoned the idea in favor of traditional through hull drain. This is much better!

[KISS]

WELL THEN

Here are a few changes to the plans that I've made in response to your comments thus far.

1. composting head instead of holding tank

2. adding some kind of winch for anchor - hoping to rig something up with halyard winch, otherwise old manual windlass

3. sinks drain to portable tanks emptied overboard, instead of plumbing to thru-hulls

4. used windvane instead of sheet to tiller (though still want to learn sheet to tiller as backup)

Still contemplating some other changes...

[hpeer]

This may be a stupid analogy, but what the hell.

You may think that someday you want a wife. So you go and read all the books on the topic and talk to some old heads for their take. But it's unlikely this approach will work.

It's better to just start dating and hanging around girls to find out what works and what doesn't. In the process you will learn a lot about yourself as well.

Then when you pick one don't be surprised if something changes, in her or you, so that it doesn't work any longer. Just move on, keep learning and being forgiving of her and yourself.

You know the call boats "she" right? Ever Wonder why?

[KISS]

Originally Posted by hpeer

This may be a stupid analogy....

A better analogy would be buying a car, or a house.

You don't buy one randomly, test it out, see what works and doesn't work, sell it, then buy another one using the knowledge you've gained. You do research, ALOT of research, and think everything through in triplicate before making such an enormous investment.

A cruising boat's like that: except more money and a complete change in lifestyle,

O, and a serious error will mean a watery death.

Not knocking experience at all, the more the better. But the same with planning: more the better. If you have to make a trade-off between them, I don't know, but I'm not faced with that choice at the moment. All I can do is plan right now.

[laika]

Originally Posted by KISS

I'm not delaying my cruise in order to plan, or save up for gear, etc. I;m delaying my cruise because don't have the money right now, period - for any kind of cruising. And anyway, I'm busy with other things. For the next few years., there's nothing I can do but plan, so that's what I'm going to do.

There's a reason why marinas and boatyards are full of boats that haven't moved for years. Life gets in the way and the dreams often don't survive contact with reality. Don't wait for too long. If it's what you really want to do, pay off your debts and get out there and do it. It doesn;t take a fortune.

Ryan

[KISS]

Originally Posted by laika

There's a reason why marinas and boatyards are full of boats that haven't moved for years. Life gets in the way and the dreams often don't survive contact with reality. Don't wait for too long. If it's what you really want to do, pay off your debts and get out there and do it. It doesn;t take a fortune.

Ryan

No debts fortunately.

Not much in the way of assets either though...

Working on it.

[carstenb]

Something for you to think about. You're planning on a 50 (+?) steel boat. Ok - that is one heavy boat.

You've also noted that you are going to single-hand this monster and you'll be spending most of your time at anchor.

1- Since you admit that you, right now, don't know how to sail - starting to learn on a 50+ foot steel boat is - extremely ambitious. Single-handing any boat, when you don't know how to sail is very, very difficult and you will be a hazard to all other boats around you.

2- Docking a boat under sail is not something you "just do". Yes it looks quite easy when you see it decribed with drawings. And if you go to the local marina and see someone who knows how do it - it looks quite easy. Doing it, in heavy winds is an entirely different matter. I noted earlier to you that rigging an autopilot via sheet to tiller requires an extremely skilled sailor.

Docking under sail also requries a very skilled sailor (especially in a 50 ft heavy steel boat).

The inertia in such a boat means you mash everything in your way if you get it wrong.

3- You have noted that you aren't impressed with hearing other's "experiences" but want hard facts. Don't have those for this, but here is my experience (based on many, many miles of sailing in almost every kindof condition except hurricaines). Single handing can be done and many do it (including me) . If your boat is rigged for it, it can be done (docking single handed without an engine is an entirely different matter) Learning how to sail, single-handed on a 50 steel boat is folly.

Buy a small boat and go to sea - learn to sail on something like 20-22 footer.

I started with a 22 footer, moved to a 33 footer and now have a 40 footer. Every time I changed boats, I had to learn how to dock again (every boat is different). The same is true for jsut sailing it.

[Normanby]

Hey KISS, I know what it's like to have the dream and not yet have the resources. Keep at it, keep the dream alive with planning, ruminating, speculating, daydreaming and of course reading.
While I was in your shoes I was a mad fan of Moitessier's and regarded his opinions as gospel.
But then I bought a steel boat, a fixer upper, having moved up from a trailer sailer. I did loads of work on her but the list just grew longer every week.
I gave up in the end, sold her to a welder who did the renovations properly.
Back to good old dried snot for me, where I (kind of) know what I'm doing.
You may have better success with steel than I had, but my advice would be to not cling too steadfastly to any fixed ideas gleaned from books.
As George Bernard Shaw once opined: "The obstinate man doesn't hold opinions, they hold him."
Not saying you're obstinate, just warning you that it's possible to find oneself with fixed ideas from folk whose experience might not fit. Like I did.
I hope your future cruising life is an unmitigated success, and that the current dreamtime period isn't too long.


Matt
Compass 28

[Normanby]

By the way, I'm not on board with the whole "buy something small (I.e. a boat you don't want) and work your way up to your big boat" strategy.
I'm on boat number 5 and the money lost on buying, storing, repairing, maintaining, and selling boats makes no economic sense.
If one can indeed live on $500 per month then I've wasted about four years of my life on buying and selling boats.
As I approach 50 time has become way more valuable to me than money, so now I'm being absolutely ruthless about economics.
If you're very lucky and careful your first boat could conceivably be your home for the rest of your life.
If that happens I'm both jealous and happy for you.
Good luck mate.


Matt
Compass 28

[DsquareD]

Originally Posted by Normanby

As I approach 50 time has become way more valuable to me than money, so now I'm being absolutely ruthless about economics.

Matt
Compass 28

Yes, time... the great equalizer. I feel like every hour in the office is a waste of time.



Dennis

Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Normanby

By the way, I'm not on board with the whole "buy something small (I.e. a boat you don't want) and work your way up to your big boat" strategy.

I will say that I support the 'buy something reasonable (which will be easy to resell) now, and sail relatively quickly round the world (say 3 years), and then you may know enough (about cruising and yourself) to buy/build your 'final' boat (or to quit sailing entirely!).

Just some random observations looking at the boats of a 5 experienced people - us, Jimmy Cornell, the Dashews, The Pardey's, and the Neils:
3 of the 5 are in the 45' range (pardey's smaller and dashew's bigger);
3 of the 5 are aluminum (pardey's wood and Neils fiberglass),
4 of the 5 are sloops (dashews ketch and then motor),
3 of 5 are fin keels (Cornell lifting keel, pardey's full keel).

I am also of the belief that many people would be better off focusing on building seamanship skills and knowledge and 'attitude' than advance planning the boat/gear in great detail.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

I will say that I support the 'buy something reasonable (which will be easy to resell) now, and sail relatively quickly round the world (say 3 years), and then you may know enough (about cruising and yourself) to buy/build your 'final' boat (or to quit sailing entirely!).

Just some random observations looking at the boats of a 5 experienced people - us, Jimmy Cornell, the Dashews, The Pardey's, and the Neils:
3 of the 5 are in the 45' range (pardey's smaller and dashew's bigger);
3 of the 5 are aluminum (pardey's wood and Neils fiberglass),
4 of the 5 are sloops (dashews ketch and then motor),
3 of 5 are fin keels (Cornell lifting keel, pardey's full keel).

I am also of the belief that many people would be better off focusing on building seamanship skills and knowledge and 'attitude' than advance planning the boat/gear in great detail.

+1

Good advice here

[slowshoes]

Originally Posted by atoll

what you need to realise is that a boat is just a "BIG HOLE " in the water,adding a couple more, if done properly really doesn't add any more risk in the grand scheme of things

Here's a Yachting monthly video of them intentionally destroying through hulls and some surprising things they used to plug the leaks.

Yachting Monthly's Crash Test Boat - Through Hull Failure - YouTube

[Jubilee39]

Originally Posted by carstenb

If you want a simple boat - buy the Pardey's boat - I believe it is for sale. They have sailed "simply".

And you think they nevern got towed in?