Induction/Expanded Electric vs Propane What Would You Do?

[Chotu]

I'm stuck in a bit of a design rut regarding induction cooking.

While it's not fun going to get propane once in a while, I'm looking at putting in induction burners and it's looking pretty bad. I see 1800 watts on these things. I know we spend at least an hour a day cooking on the stove top. This can include 3 burners. What a beast of an electrical consumption issue.

I have a 440AH FLA bank because I wanted to center the systems around the propane refrigerator and propane in general, to keep it light. I'm upgrading to a non propane refrigerator. A household type. This should be fine since I have 1400 watts of solar. Batteries are only needed at night. Note: I still have to pick up a charge controller and 2 more 350 watt panels. I have 700 watts now, designed to 1400.

However, I was thinking of ditching the propane and going to all electric but the weight penalty is making me a bit nauseous. Ha ha. The money aspect isn't great either.

Currently:
Propane refrigerator
Propane hot water heater
Propane cooktop
Gasoline outboards
Enough propane to last 4 months (60lbs)
Gasoline generator
150 gallons gasoline
Electric oven (not used every day, requires generator run)
Microwave
12v spectra watermaker

Was Contemplating:
Electric home refrigerator
Induction cooktop
Electric hot water
Gasoline outboards
Eliminate propane
Keep all else from above list

Looking at energy consumption requirements, I'd have to add an incredible amount of batteries (plus those extra panels and charge controller) or run the generator every time I want to cook in a serious way, which is quite often, almost daily.

What are some opinions on this, keeping in mind weight and money are the two most important design factors?

Should I stick with what I have or try to use induction/electric everything?

[coopec43]

I do intend reading your post thoroughly but just reading through your post quickly a few things hit me.

What design is your boat? I ask that because if you have a catamaran with unlimited room for solar panels. I am out of my depth here but you seem to have an enormous amount of solar power

A domestic fridge would not work on a mono hull as the fridge walls are too thin and the motor would have to come on quite frequently to maintain the required temp. But a catamaran with huge amounts of solar power seem to get away with it.

Do you ever need to use three burner/hot plates? Are you cooking for a 10 man crew!!

I bought a portable induction hotplate and it is 2000W but it doesn't use that all the time. (It heats up very quickly)

I intend using the portable induction hotplate (although I will have gas too) but I also have a microwave to supplement the hotplate. (You might gather my yacht is still under construction)

[s/v Jedi]

The 1,800W is the maximum power consumption at the highest setting.

There are many ways to go. For us, we often run the genset for an hour or so, making optimal use of it :

- making water
- making hot water
- induction cooking dinner
- charging house batteries, laptops, iPads etc.
- sometimes run A/C to get heat from the day and/or cooking out as well as moisture

So instead of propane, we use a little diesel. We still carry propane for the grill.

[s/v Jedi]

For fridge, freezer have a good look at Snomaster brand boxes

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by coopec43

I do intend reading your post thoroughly but just reading through your post quickly a few things hit me.

What design is your boat? I ask that because if you have a catamaran with unlimited room for solar panels. I am out of my depth here but you seem to have an enormous amount of solar power

A domestic fridge would not work on a mono hull as the fridge walls are too thin and the motor would have to come on quite frequently to maintain the required temp. But a catamaran with huge amounts of solar power seem to get away with it.

Do you ever need to use three burner/hot plates? Are you cooking for a 10 man crew!!

I bought a portable induction hotplate and it is 2000W but it doesn't use that all the time. (It heats up very quickly)

I intend using the portable induction hotplate (although I will have gas too) but I also have a microwave to supplement the hotplate. (You might gather my yacht is still under construction)

Lightweight, performance oriented sailing catamaran. I'd like to keep it that way. Ha ha.

We cook a lot. There are Indian/Desi meals being made a lot but I suppose we could pare it down to 2 burners.

Any idea what watts are used at half heat or at lowest heat settings on an induction cooktop? I suppose 1800 watts is for boiling water.

However, hitting the batteries with huge loads like 1800 watts results in needing new batteries more often.

Then again, we don't really cook at night. It's a daytime activity. So the excess solar may be enough for that?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The 1,800W is the maximum power consumption at the highest setting.

There are many ways to go. For us, we often run the genset for an hour or so, making optimal use of it :

- making water
- making hot water
- induction cooking dinner
- charging house batteries, laptops, iPads etc.
- sometimes run A/C to get heat from the day and/or cooking out as well as moisture

So instead of propane, we use a little diesel. We still carry propane for the grill.

Ah, I should mention the generator is only for HVAC and emergency backup power in my design. I worry about making noise in quiet anchorages to cook. I also worry that a mechanical issue with the generator taking out cooking will really upset me. Lol. Trying to design systems that work for extended times away from shore.

However, the generator route is the easiest (no getting propane) and the lightest (use existing onboard fuel). Good points. Probably the most economical as well, other than leaving it all running on propane.

I had seriously considered relying on the generator for everything, but had concerns about the generator breaking down and leaving us with no food, etc. And also had some concerns about upsetting people around me in quiet places. Though I do see generators run more and more all over the place.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Ah, I should mention the generator is only for HVAC and emergency backup power in my design. I worry about making noise in quiet anchorages to cook. I also worry that a mechanical issue with the generator taking out cooking will really upset me. Lol. Trying to design systems that work for extended times away from shore.

However, the generator route is the easiest (no getting propane) and the lightest (use existing onboard fuel). Good points. Probably the most economical as well, other than leaving it all running on propane.

I had seriously considered relying on the generator for everything, but had concerns about the generator breaking down and leaving us with no food, etc. And also had some concerns about upsetting people around me in quiet places. Though I do see generators run more and more all over the place.

Those concerns are addressed by creating a situation where failures are minimized (good quality gear, good maintenance schedule, good spares inventory) as well as a fallback plan like an inverter rated for induction cooking, electric convection oven etc. and engine mounted alternator(s) to supply power to the inverter.

We can cook small dishes like for breakfast, lunch using just the inverter and battery bank, solar for charging

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Those concerns are addressed by creating a situation where failures are minimized (good quality gear, good maintenance schedule, good spares inventory) as well as a fallback plan like an inverter rated for induction cooking, electric convection oven etc. and engine mounted alternator(s) to supply power to the inverter.

We can cook small dishes like for breakfast, lunch using just the inverter and battery bank, solar for charging

Ok. Cool.

How much solar do you have and what size inverter for cooking without genset?

I assume we are talking about running a single induction burner at a time? Do you know what it draws in terms of power at full, half, and simmer type settings?

I don't have onboard engines so no alternator. Solar and generator are the only power sources.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Ok. Cool.

How much solar do you have and what size inverter for cooking without genset?

I assume we are talking about running a single induction burner at a time? Do you know what it draws in terms of power at full, half, and simmer type settings?

I don't have onboard engines so no alternator. Solar and generator are the only power sources.

I bought a single "burner" portable induction hotplate just recently for $48.(Australian) 35 USD(?) Probably worthwhile getting one for.....(say) if you ran out of gas?

It's getting late here but I'll come back with the info you want in the morning if no one else has provided it.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Ok. Cool.

How much solar do you have and what size inverter for cooking without genset?

I assume we are talking about running a single induction burner at a time? Do you know what it draws in terms of power at full, half, and simmer type settings?

I don't have onboard engines so no alternator. Solar and generator are the only power sources.

I have 660W solar now but will upgrade that significantly in the near future to 1.5kW. I use a Victron 3kW inverter/charger which I can recommend. We do most cooking aboard on a single induction plate, often using the microwave for steaming vegetables etc.

An 1,800W rated unit will use about 1,700W at full power, 800W half power and less than 100W at simmer. You need a good plate for simmering with true low power levels instead of high power on-off algorithms to lower output. Another good option is to use a Dutch oven and put that in an electric oven with accurate thermostat control.

What generator do you have?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have 660W solar now but will upgrade that significantly in the near future to 1.5kW. I use a Victron 3kW inverter/charger which I can recommend. We do most cooking aboard on a single induction plate, often using the microwave for steaming vegetables etc.

An 1,800W rated unit will use about 1,700W at full power, 800W half power and less than 100W at simmer. You need a good plate for simmering with true low power levels instead of high power on-off algorithms to lower output. Another good option is to use a Dutch oven and put that in an electric oven with accurate thermostat control.

What generator do you have?

Sorry for all the questions. You have what I'm thinking of doing.

Ok. We have very similar solar setups. What's the Victron draw when it's not doing much of anything? At "idle?" Do you have any parasitic loads or do you use the breaker to cut all power to the microwave for instance?

When going for this level of AC power, it makes sense to REALLY go AC. Things get a lot lighter when you have most of it running on AC power rather than DC. As the amps are reduced by a factor of 10, the wiring can be downsized significantly. That weight is no joke when you have a 25' beam. So I'm also attracted to leaving the Victron on 24/7 and running nearly everything off AC.

Definitely need a quality induction burner to simmer. A lot of what we do is simmering or other low temperature cooking. Thanks for the tip on that.

Don't get too hung up on the generator side of things because I have a design philosophy: "No through hulls below the waterline and no zincs. Also easily replaceable, non marine items where safe" Adhering to the design philosophy, I have a 5KW Honda generator. It's primarily for HVAC and backup battery charging, but running them more often is good for them so no issues there. Let's just I have a 5KW generator and not get into saying I need a different one. Ha ha. I can feel the current of the thread drift increasing as we are starting to talk about an unconventional setup. Lol

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Ah, I should mention the generator is only for HVAC and emergency backup power in my design. I worry about making noise in quiet anchorages to cook. I also worry that a mechanical issue with the generator taking out cooking will really upset me. Lol. Trying to design systems that work for extended times away from shore.

However, the generator route is the easiest (no getting propane) and the lightest (use existing onboard fuel). Good points. Probably the most economical as well, other than leaving it all running on propane.

I had seriously considered relying on the generator for everything, but had concerns about the generator breaking down and leaving us with no food, etc. And also had some concerns about upsetting people around me in quiet places. Though I do see generators run more and more all over the place.

Not sure it'll help, but I'll describe some of our set-up and the way we use it...

Diesel generator
Two dual-purpose start/house banks (300 Ah and 440Ah)
2000W inverter on one of the dual-purpose start/house banks (440 Ah)Two AC/DC fridges (one large, one smaller)
Electric water heater
Two burner electric cooktop (not induction... yet)
Combo convection/microwave oven
An electric slow cooker and an electric Instant Pot
Electric coffee maker
Electric icemaker
Portable propane grill
No solar

Small meals, snacks, happy hour hors d' oeuvres, early morning coffee, meals underway (if any cooking involved), etc are fed by the inverter.

Real cooking happens when we run the genset for a while in mid-morning and late afternoon/early evening... while we charge the batteries, heat water, cool the boat with aircons if necessary. We're not cooking for armies, but it's easy enough to do a major dinner using all the various options.

A couple general FWIW comments:

I'd prefer an AC/DC fridge if you could find the right size... to reduce inverter loss associated with an AC-only fridge. It'd be more expensive up front, but maybe less hassle in the long run. (Depending on how solar might affect that equation; I'm not familiar enough with solar to vote on that part of it.)

If another boat can hear your generator from more than about 50' away... I'd say you've got the wrong generator or an imperfect installation...

-Chris

[s/v Jedi]

I think your genset is fine In your shoes, I would buy another smaller Honda like the 2200 companion for backup.

For refrigeration I have been advocating Frigoboat but we are now switching to a much simpler setup. See the attached pics. There are three Snomaster Expedition boxes and the other picture shows one of the sliding trays I’m currently building

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I think your genset is fine In your shoes, I would buy another smaller Honda like the 2200 companion for backup.

For refrigeration I have been advocating Frigoboat but we are now switching to a much simpler setup. See the attached pics. There are three Snomaster Expedition boxes and the other picture shows one of the sliding trays I’m currently building

The snowmasters look cool but we have very specific dimensions and requirements in the refrigerator department. Looks good though!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Chotu

The snowmasters look cool but we have very specific dimensions and requirements in the refrigerator department. Looks good though!

We have that too... I think most boats do. They sell these in many shapes and sizes so should be possible to make it work. We went to Snomaster because of their stainless steel construction, thicker insulation and very low energy use. I recently finished mosts tests and will write a blog series on the whole project.
https://www.snomasterusa.com/product...dition-series/