Getting a perfect surface with wood?

[Buzzman]

Originally Posted by gonesail

good marine carpenters don't use filler.

What utter rubbish!

Talk about judgemental.

ALL carpenters use filler at some point. It depends more on the type of finish required. If you are seeking mirror-gloss-finish-varnish-exposed-timber-everywhere, then, yes, fine attention to detail and measurements so there are no 'gaps' that require filling is the watchword.

But the OP has already stated he wants a "modern plastic look" finish, which means covering the woodwork with paint or polyurethane or whatever, and so, the tightness and fineness of the joinery need not be as exacting.

It will therefore be MUCH easier (especially for a non-expert, as the OP has stated himself to be) and will therefore be MUCH cheaper as the highest quality timbers and ply faces aren't required, as they would be with a varnished finish.

I began my carpentry career using a scraper to smooth solid timber and veneers. We weren't even allowed to use sandpaper!

So trust me when I say that these days I use Green Box plywood, B-C grade, lashings of filler and finish with paint - where such a finish is relevant. It's quick, easy, and cheaper. Sometimes that matters.

Varnishing used to be done to protect high wear areas as much as to provide bling, because paints weren't so great. But at the time when this technique was in high usage, labour rates were lower and so the longer finishing time for varnished timber (and the higher quality joinery required for such finishes) was not as expensive as it is today.

These days, varnishing is best kept to edges, detail strips, and smaller detail panels, rather than great swathes, as such are usually easier to maintain but still provcide something of the 'look' of a varnished interior.

Was a time when shellac was cheap, methylated spirits was cheap, and anyone with some time and dedicatio could build up a 'french polished' [i.e. varnished] surface themselves for not much money.

These days, shellac is not so cheap, and few have the time....

By all means, spend the time to make exactingly accurate joints, and carefully scribe, fit and refit shapes to get them as closely and tightly jointed as possible, if that's what turns you on.

But these days, with reinforced epoxy or polyurethane joints usually stronger than the timber they are joining, it simply isn't necessary. Near enough, fill and fair, is a perfectly acceptable methodology for DIY boat building.

YMMV

[Buzzman]

For the curious, non-Australian reader, "Green Box" refers to the 'Big Green Box' store, which is a colloquial reference to Australia's largest hardware chain, Bunnings, whose stores are large, green-painted boxes, but whose reputation for quality timber is less than wonderful.
Ergo, Green Box plywood is "cheap and ordinary" and usually only to the readily-countenanced BS1088 "standard" that can apparently be applied to anything for a fee.
Australian and NZ standard AS/NZS 2272 is MUCH more exacting in its requirements, and is mostly only available as locally made hoop pine A-A faced sheets, which are of course, slightly heavier per metre square than the more ubiquitous and cheaper okoume or similar Phillipine 'marine ply' in BS 1088.
So radiata pine, or merbau/okoume 'marine ply' from Bunnings does have A-bond resorcinol glue, but often features voids and flaws not acceptable under the AS/NZS 2272.
Hence "green box ply" is code for 'cheap but not too nasty'....
It is possible to obtain Bruynzeel marine plys here, but few people use them due to their excessive cost compared to the regularly available stuff.

[Chotu]

@Buzzman.

Exactly! I’m an amateur woodworker at best. I’m not out to prove anything.

I just need results and to build an interior with a process that’s proven, repeatable, lightweight, modern looking, durable to an extent, goes up quickly and isn’t too rough on the finances.

It’s a lot to ask, but there is definitely a correct combination of the above factors that can be had.

Absolutely not trying to prove a thing about my skills. Ha ha. I have none. My only skill is o can make decent cuts. Precise. Other than that, I’m learning.

Your advice earlier is probably the most complete in the thread and makes for a guide I can follow. I never did understand how to do the corners. Now I get it from reading your post.

Using filler and spraying may be the best route. I already sprayed the entire boat and part of the interior that was finished epoxy/glass/foam. It came out great. So spraying the interior would be good.

Only issue is I’m in the water now and my old boat shed doesn’t exist anymore. I have my compressor still but I can’t run it. (3 phase power required). Maybe I can spray using a garbage compressor? I have no experience with that. Sprayed the whole boat using a pressure pot and good compressor.

[rslifkin]

You can definitely get a 120v compressor that'll suffice for spraying. One of the 30 gallon units should work decently, most will push somewhere in the 5 - 6 scfm range. They exist in cheap / loud oil-free form as well as quieter, more durable (and slightly more expensive) oiled form.

You'll just have to monitor your air consumption to see if you occasionally need a break for the compressor to catch up. If budget allows, I've also seen people plumb 2 smaller compressors in parallel for more air volume when they were limited to only 120v power and couldn't get a bigger compressor. If you have single phase 240v available, you can get some 10+ scfm big units that'll definitely be plenty.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Chotu

...(3 phase power required). Maybe I can spray using a garbage compressor? I have no experience with that. Sprayed the whole boat using a pressure pot and good compressor.

If you have other 3 phase equipment:

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...0aAnIFEALw_wcB


Or build your own:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u229h7NcMxk

Or, if the compressor you have now is high quality and you want to keep it and you have no other 3 phase equipment, just change the motor to a single phase.


I spray varnish in cabinetry-size doses with a little 150.00 pancake compressor...HVLP gun.

[Chotu]

The HVLP gun idea is a good one. What small, disposable, harbor freight compressor and HVLP Combo would someone recommend to spray small areas like a single room of a boat? Tiny jobs. I could do one room at a time.

Taking my compressor from the boat building project onto the boat would be insane. LOL. My generator on the Catamaran would have a heart attack, and the thing would be just too big and heavy to even put on there to work.

This is the one I had. It’s in storage right now. I should probably be selling it. If anybody wants to buy it in Florida let me know. Works perfectly. I would sell it for half the price of retail. Not even many hours on it.

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tool..._211720_211720

[MicHughV]

Chotu, I'm going to throw out my last suggestion for joints, etc.
The sailors friend.
3M makes a product I'm sure you are familiar with....the 5200 caulk....it's a polyurethane caulk with incredible strength and tenacity that will stick to anything.
I'd go so far as to say anything stuck together with 5200 will be there forever.
I can be used as a joint filler or "glue".
It takes a bit of time to dry...it's only downfall..though 3M makes a fast dry version of the 5200 called the 4200.
And it's white !!
I can be purchased in the large caulking gun tubes and also smaller tubes.
It's a bit pricey, but there is no question that it is an excellent product.
For filling a joint it might be perfect for your needs as it will both fill and glue the joint.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Chotu, I'm going to throw out my last suggestion for joints, etc.
The sailors friend.
3M makes a product I'm sure you are familiar with....the 5200 caulk....it's a polyurethane caulk with incredible strength and tenacity that will stick to anything.
I'd go so far as to say anything stuck together with 5200 will be there forever.
I can be used as a joint filler or "glue".
It takes a bit of time to dry...it's only downfall..though 3M makes a fast dry version of the 5200 called the 4200.
And it's white !!
I can be purchased in the large caulking gun tubes and also smaller tubes.
It's a bit pricey, but there is no question that it is an excellent product.
For filling a joint it might be perfect for your needs as it will both fill and glue the joint.

Definitely. Have been using it where appropriate already. Thanks!

Used it where a flat, horizontal surface made of wood waterproofed with polyester joins the hull. As a gap filler.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

It takes a bit of time to dry...it's only downfall..though 3M makes a fast dry version of the 5200 called the 4200.

As a note, 4200 is not just fast-cure 5200. 4200 is much more removable.

[Buzzman]

My understanding of the 5200 is that it does not 'harden' and remains slightly viscous, which is what makes it excel for sealing perspex windows due to the hig modulous of exapnsion between the reative surfaces - perspex and subtrate.
Allegedly, modern cat builders use the 5200 (or similar) with no additional fastenings. But a broad stiction area, painted black, and a black version of the 5200.
There's videos online how to do this, but basically you dry fit and then mask the overlapping perspex area, spray paint this with suitable paint, then once dry, add 5200. Can't recall if you paint the inside or the outside, but it hides the glue is the point.

[Buzzman]

Originally Posted by Chotu

The HVLP gun idea is a good one.....

Hmmm. Maybe not. All the HVLP guns I've seen are gravity fed from a canister on top of the handpiece. These don't work so well for getting into nooks and crannies in boats. No doubt someone knows of one that isn't...

A large capacity cylinder on the comporessor, and probably a decent 1/2HP V-twin motor to get it up to 150psi or a bit more would be better, as you need a few psi over the paint gun requirement to allow for pressure loss while using. The small 40L cylinders of the typical 'home shop' compressor are not good for this. You need at least an 80L cylinder, or more, and motor/compressor sized to suit. These are available in single phase, but 3-phase is better.

[Buzzman]

Chotu - it's probably worth reading Atoll's thread here:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ft-103739.html
if you haven't already, as he's doing the internal modernizing of a Prout Snowgoose 37 himself, on the water mostly.
He is an accomplished woodworker and pattern maker, but nothing he has produced is impossible for an amateur - except, of course, he uses epoxy.
But great for inspiration and 'how to' ideas.

In response to your comment about the edges and corners - many people naturally assume you can just butt two sheets of ply up against each other and round the edges over. While this *does* work (after a fashion) the exposed endgrain of at least one of the sheets is difficult to smooth, requires HARD filler (pref epoxy) and much finishing, and still doesn't wear as well as the timber-rail-version I outlined previously. And can only be painted as it usually looks sub-par when varnished, and ends up rough becasue it's ahrd to smooth the timber )and the varnish) if only coated in 'slear' product. Edge finishing requires many, many coats and MUCH in between sanding to get such an edge smooth.
If you finish the ply edge into the rebate on the timber rail however, you can easily varnish just the rail, and paint the rest, just for some added 'bling'.
Masking tape is your friend in this case.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Chotu - it's probably worth reading Atoll's thread here:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ft-103739.html
if you haven't already, as he's doing the internal modernizing of a Prout Snowgoose 37 himself, on the water mostly.
He is an accomplished woodworker and pattern maker, but nothing he has produced is impossible for an amateur - except, of course, he uses epoxy.
But great for inspiration and 'how to' ideas.

In response to your comment about the edges and corners - many people naturally assume you can just butt two sheets of ply up against each other and round the edges over. While this *does* work (after a fashion) the exposed endgrain of at least one of the sheets is difficult to smooth, requires HARD filler (pref epoxy) and much finishing, and still doesn't wear as well as the timber-rail-version I outlined previously. And can only be painted as it usually looks sub-par when varnished, and ends up rough becasue it's ahrd to smooth the timber )and the varnish) if only coated in 'slear' product. Edge finishing requires many, many coats and MUCH in between sanding to get such an edge smooth.
If you finish the ply edge into the rebate on the timber rail however, you can easily varnish just the rail, and paint the rest, just for some added 'bling'.
Masking tape is your friend in this case.

Yes. Exacly what I'm saying. I get the corners now. Never did before.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Hmmm. Maybe not. All the HVLP guns I've seen are gravity fed from a canister on top of the handpiece. These don't work so well for getting into nooks and crannies in boats. No doubt someone knows of one that isn't...

A large capacity cylinder on the comporessor, and probably a decent 1/2HP V-twin motor to get it up to 150psi or a bit more would be better, as you need a few psi over the paint gun requirement to allow for pressure loss while using. The small 40L cylinders of the typical 'home shop' compressor are not good for this. You need at least an 80L cylinder, or more, and motor/compressor sized to suit. These are available in single phase, but 3-phase is better.

This is definitely not in the cards just to paint the interior. Seems like it would be very difficult to get from the dock onto the boat as well.

[Rucksta]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

All the HVLP guns I've seen are gravity fed from a canister on top of the handpiece. These don't work so well for getting into nooks and crannies in boats. No doubt someone knows of one that isn't...

Supercheap Auto have a LPHV touch up gun with a swivelling pot for around $30.00 AUD - Blackridge.
It will work vertically.
Tiny pot 125ml and a 0.4 nozzle as standard so it's really just touch up or perfect for varnished trim.

For larger guns with non swivelling pots I made 30 & 45 degree adapters.
More out of the bottom of the pot but the real bonus is being able to near fill the pot without spilling when working overhead.

Cheers.