Dickinson Heater Questions - V.S. Sigmar V.S.?

[suesue]

Originally Posted by Hyrdflyr

I love my Dickenson heater on my boat. I have had various diesel stoves on boats for over 25 years and they work for me. That said, They do require an understanding of their operation to use without issues. Installation and draft is critical. Understanding how the fuel/ air ratio effects operation is the key to sucessful use. If you are comfortable with learning from someone knowledgeable, then go for it. They are amazingly efficient and use little of no electricity. Both Sigmar and Dickenson operate similarly.

If your fuel supply is lower than the stove you will need a regulated low pressure pump to provide fuel to the stove under slight pressure. I do not recommend a gravity tank that would require refilling regularly. Sooner of later it will overfill and spill, or is just generally a pain if used routinely.

Get one of the emergency overheat shut off fuel valves when you install the unit. It has a sensor which straps to the back of the flue and shut off the fuel supply if it overheats. Good insurance.

Make sure that you have a barometric Damper.

Have at least 5 feet of flue for the best operation. I have an extra section of flue I remove when under sail and install when needed.

Buy a self energizing fan from a wood stove dealer, and strap it to the top of the stove for free heat circulation in the cabin. Buy some 4 inch computer fans to increase circulation to other sections of the boat. I also have a 120 volt little 6 inch clamp on fan that only draws 1.3 amps that i use at anchor.

All of the above have kept us warm in coastal Alaska all the way south to the San Juans. If you have doubts of your ability to deal with these fairly simple requirements, then get a forced air unit such as an Espar that is more sophisticated but less demanding in operation. Then find an knowledgeable dealer who can help you maintain it.

Stay warm.

Wow great tips here. thanks

[suesue]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I agree that the stove pipes seem to have thin walls but they do hold up for the long haul. Don't worry about them. BTW consider putting sheet metal screws through the joints so that they can't come apart if accidentally hit. Also put heat shields where you might accidentally touch the pipes - that can be very painful. A 45º jog in the exhaust is a good thing, both for the draft inside the pipe and for breaking the convection flow on the outside which can cook the overhead around the exhaust.

I have had a Sigmar for many years. It kept me warm and dry over a Swedish winter so I am a fan. Sigmar has a few small advantages over the Dickinson stoves but either works fine. The Sigmar is a bit more efficient due to the cylindrical burners. My recommendation is to choose the one that best fits your application, with a slight preference for Sigmar.

One of the advantages that the Sigmar has is that it is designed for bringing air into the burner from outside through a second stove pipe. This is a great solution for preventing a backdraft putting out the flame and then re-igniting, creating a mess - but very few install it this way. Alternatively buy the draft assist fan and use it on windy days. Without the dedicated air supply it is necessary to allow for air intake into the cabin to replace the air that goes up the chimney - which is a big win for keeping the interior dry.

The burner needs to be cleaned every couple of months of continuous operation - no big deal. If it is running properly there should be little or no soot. The proper way to start it is to use an ounce or so of stove alcohol to pre-heat the burner before opening the carburetor for diesel, which greatly reduces the soot at start-up compared to the old way of just igniting a small amount of diesel in the burner (very messy).

You didn't say where you are going to use the boat. If you are staying close to home then pellets or wood might be a good solution but elsewhere it might be difficult to source. Also we are in a very damp environment so the fuel will absorb moisture. Diesel is easy to buy, can burn unattended for days, and is very compact to stow. I recommend diesel for a cruising boat.

Greg

thanks Greg. Yeah, I read that a Pellet stove used 40 LBS per 24 hour
period! Not sure what model - but you'd need a deck hand just to
keep the pellets coming!

So many great posters here . Thanks will take me a while to digest
each one. thanks.

Hard to reply also - since this board seems to log me OUT - after each
time I post

Sue

[suesue]

Originally Posted by alctel

Maybe? Though storage for all the pellets is a problem I imagine, and you can't easily leave it on overnight

Nothing beats the ambiance of a wood stove though, for sure

At 40 lbs need per 24 hour period - people apparently order by the
pallet. I guess a hopper can keep them flowing { advanced models }.

But apparently it's a forced fan backdraft . When no power - no backdraft. mucho smoke inside!

[suesue]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

And were it me, I'd look into adding some thermal mass in the vicinity of the stove. So that even when it's not on, or is on low, there's a good bit of heat in the boat. That way even if you turn the stove off, or close to it, when sleeping, the boat doesn't become an icebox.

.

thats an interesting idea. Since these stoves, themselves, seem so lightweight.
What would folks suggest? I'm guessing an array/ pile of bricks around it?

thanks for ideas UNCIVILIZED.

[suesue]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

If you're thinking about solid fuel stoves, especially ones that burn wood, get a good spark arresting system for them. As on Endeavor & some of the other J boats, when the stove/fireplace is in use, there's a crewman on deck who's job it is to see & extinguish any cinders which escape the chimney. Prior to their setting things like the mainsail on fire... Often a cold, & thankless job.

.

WOW - your the first poster I've seen mention that. And that's been on
my mind from the start - I can just picture sparks flying out of the
pipe top! Couldn't sleep with that image!

I don't even see such an arrestor in the Dickinson Sites.

[suesue]

Originally Posted by Siberian Sea

If you desire to install a diesel stove or heater such as the Dickinson in your vessel I would advise to to also install one of the emergency fuel cutoff switch. It's very simple. It installs in the fuel line just before to heater carb. How it works is this. It has a temperature censor and in the event your diesel unit should become over fueled and "runs away". The excess heat will cause the safety switch to shut off the fuel. Many boats burn, I'm from Alaska and own a commercial fishing boat there. I have a Dickinson stove that runs 24/7 for months at a time but...... You need to be aware always of the hazard. Perhaps a much much safer and efficient way to go is to buy a Webasto diesel system. I have one of these too it's model "air top st 2000" and it works wonderful. Only used 1 gallen of diesel each. 24 hours. Runs supper clean and 100 per cent safe, I cannot say enough good about this heater. Best place to buy them is from a semi truck dealer like Kenworth. You can install the kit yourself. If you decide to buy one and ever have questions about it feel free to message me here. I've been using one for 10 years now.

yes. thanks so much! are these safety switches 100 percent reliable?

If one goes to the Webasto - in what way are they safer? Don't they
contain a diesel burner also? I guess its the vent routing that keeps
people from this solution?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by suesue

thats an interesting idea. Since these stoves, themselves, seem so lightweight.
What would folks suggest? I'm guessing an array/ pile of bricks around it?

thanks for ideas UNCIVILIZED.

I haven't much seen this on boats, it just seems like a good, common sense idea. And it's done with great results in homes. To include a house in NW Montana where they only need to light their fireplace twice a week in the winter to keep it warm. So I'm a fan, especially after growing up with wood heat.

For ideas & resources just look at places that sell wood stoves, & wood stove inserts for fireplaces. And the fireplace above is in a book called Living Homes from www.HollowTop.com

Originally Posted by suesue

WOW - your the first poster I've seen mention that. And that's been on
my mind from the start - I can just picture sparks flying out of the
pipe top! Couldn't sleep with that image!

I don't even see such an arrestor in the Dickinson Sites.

Again, this is a common sense item that's not much found on boats. So you might have to have one custom made. But to my knowledge anyway, they're for solid fuel stoves, such as wood stoves. Which use fuels that don't burn cleanly like a Propane, or Diesel stove does. Though unless they'd create enough back pressure to impede the stove's performance, then they're probably okay to use. But talk to the stove's manufacturer before you have such a unit custom made for it.

[01kiwijohn]

I put one in my boat, and it works great, up here, in the Pacific NW winters.
For ULS Diesel, there is a little adapter that just sits inside the burner, I have one, but have yet to need to use it.
I turn mine off at bed time, because it just gets too hot, even on the lowest setting, for me to sleep. We also sleep under a warm duvet.
The flue pipe seems up to the job, just install it properly, with enough length to sustain the daft for combustion.
If you install it properly, and light it up according to the instructions (takes a little patience), keep the flame burning above the burner ring, and you will not have any smoke to worry about. My flue is clean, after three years use.
For safety's sake, make sure you buy, and install, the flue temperature shut off. I left mine on one day, at higher than usual setting, and it shut the fuel off perfectly.
I'd highly recommend this heater.

[suesue]

Originally Posted by 01kiwijohn

I put one in my boat, and it works great, up here, in the Pacific NW winters.
For ULS Diesel, there is a little adapter that just sits inside the burner, I have one, but have yet to need to use it.
.

Hi,

Oh, ok, I wonder whos needed, and used it?

Originally Posted by 01kiwijohn

I put one in my boat, and it works great, up here, in the Pacific NW winters.

................

I turn mine off at bed time, because it just gets too hot, even on the lowest setting, for me to sleep. .

really? Whats the outside temps? What model do you own?

Originally Posted by 01kiwijohn

you will not have any smoke to worry about. My flue is clean, after three years use.
.

great. And you don't notice diesel smell hanging around in a calm, I gather?

thanks!

Sue

[IdoraKeeper]

I have a Dickinsen and it works fine. Plenty of heat but takes a while to warm up. Be careful not to over fire trying to hurry it up. It takes a while to burn off excessive fuel in the burner can and may damage finishes nearby.
I have never used stove alcohol to start. For those that do, how much do you use?
Also I fabricated a double wall stove pipe from flue pipe purchased at Home Depot. The single wall oem pipe can cause serious burns if a person inadvertently contacts it, perhaps due to unexpected motion of the boat.

[suesue]

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper

Also I fabricated a double wall stove pipe from flue pipe purchased at Home Depot.

Hi,


Check - saw that pipe. Galvanized. how's it working? . One hardware
store told me to stick to the Stainless { what Dickinson uses} - but it's way more expensive.

What's the difference in temp of a wood fire or pellet fire { presumably
compatible with those pipes} and a diesel fire, I wonder?

thanks

[IdoraKeeper]

The internal pipe is stainless, outer galvanized..works great..6years now, no problem.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by suesue

Hi,


Check - saw that pipe. Galvanized. how's it working? . One hardware
store told me to stick to the Stainless { what Dickinson uses} - but it's way more expensive.

What's the difference in temp of a wood fire or pellet fire { presumably
compatible with those pipes} and a diesel fire, I wonder?

thanks

You shouldn't use galvanized pipe inside - it gives off poisonous fumes when as hot as a stove pipe gets.

Wood fire will get the stack hotter - guess pellets will also - than diesel.

With a wood burner you will get creosote build up in the stack. The stove pipe for a wood burner is installed the opposite way as for a diesel burner. For wood the upper pipe goes inside the lower at the join. The joins have to be cemented inside. This is to prevent creosote build-up from running down onto the stove top.

[suesue]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

You shouldn't use galvanized pipe inside - it gives off poisonous fumes when as hot as a stove pipe gets.

.

this is what I have heard. What if you take the pipe outside - and
heat it up with a blow torch - could you make it "safe? ?

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Wood fire will get the stack hotter - guess pellets will also - than diesel..

ok this is surprising. I thought the spec call for stainless was because
a diesel would get hotter. What is the other reasons then? Other than
selling you up priced pipe?

Originally Posted by mitiempo

With a wood burner you will get creosote build up in the stack. .

this is a main reason not to go wood.

thanks

Sue

[suesue]

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper

The internal pipe is stainless, outer galvanized..works great..6years now, no problem.

I'm confused. I went to home depot - apparently 6 years after you -- and
they sent me to the small pellet stove " pipe section".

It's all that double pipe with galvanized outer, and looks like regular sheet
metal interior. No where on the pipe do I see any heat rating, nor
temp rating, nor stove type numbers. It's says " gas vent" pipe.