Bristol Channel Cutter Wheel Steering Instead of Tiller

[picklesandjesse]

Maybe a stuck on false clipper bow too, they can really make a statement?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by reed1v

For those folks who think they have too much weather helm here is a tip: First check the mast's foot. some have a half moon metal plate fitted to the bottom(Cheoy Lees for example). That allows you to rake the mast aft. Raking the mast aft even two degrees from vertical will remove some weather helm. You can fit a plate to the bottom if one is not already there.
This is mostly a problem with ketch and yawl configurations.


Sometimes you will see boats with a lot of rake which indicates a hull that really wants to round up into the wind. Farther aft you rake, the less weather helm. Rake it enough and it will have lee helm(not good).

Itod, captains use to rake their masts according to how much cargo they were stowing and where stowed. Look at old photos. In harbor most masts are vertical. At sea, they are raked, sometimes severely so. Deeper the hull, more it wants to head into the wind. Old timers would go off soundings and fuss with the rake for different loads so they would have a good idea how to adjust the masts in port for the loads they were to carry.

Umm... Reed, I think you have this quite backwards: increasing mast rake moves the CE of the mainsail aft, which in fact INCREASES weather helm, not decreases.

You might want to reconsider the advice you have given.

Jim

[Triumphant]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Umm... Reed, I think you have this quite backwards: increasing mast rake moves the CE of the mainsail aft, which in fact INCREASES weather helm, not decreases.

You might want to reconsider the advice you have given.

Jim

+1

In my experience

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Triumphant

+1

In my experience

Yup, thanks. Old age and dyslexia strike again. Take my advice and reverse every thing.

[Barefootnavigat]

Adding a wheel to a BCC is about as brilliant as raking your mast to get rid of weather helm .

[scottmacc]

I am nearing the end of building a Mark Smallder's Designed 32' Kahuna which if you squint from afar may resemble a BCC. At any rate, it's tiller steered with a transom hung rudder. another person building the same boat, has opted to go with wheel steering using the Edson system aforementioned on this thread. We are each hoping to launch later this summer so as yet can't give proven results on either system. However, can point you to his pictures/site if your interested....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77428955@N02/9488944677/


https://www.flickr.com/photos/77428955@N02/page2

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by scottmacc

I am nearing the end of building a Mark Smallder's Designed 32' Kahuna which if you squint from afar may resemble a BCC. At any rate, it's tiller steered with a transom hung rudder. another person building the same boat, has opted to go with wheel steering using the Edson system aforementioned on this thread. We are each hoping to launch later this summer so as yet can't give proven results on either system. However, can point you to his pictures/site if your interested....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77428955@N02/9488944677/


https://www.flickr.com/photos/77428955@N02/page2

Scott, thanks for the photos. That wheel is one of the most UN-"ergonomic" arrangements I have ever seen.

It looks, to me, like someone stuck a steering wheel on the back end of a Fiat Spider.

[scottmacc]

To each their own...He really has done some fine work. we're both anxious to get our boats in the water soon. I had the Edson worm-drive steering on a Cape Dory 30 ketch. It worked well enough, and was bullet proof, but I prefer a tiller.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by scottmacc

To each their own...He really has done some fine work. we're both anxious to get our boats in the water soon. I had the Edson worm-drive steering on a Cape Dory 30 ketch. It worked well enough, and was bullet proof, but I prefer a tiller.

I agree. My point wasn't wheel vs tiller, but rather the position of that particular wheel (not even wheel on a BCC).

[barnakiel]

Why is there weather helm in one BCC and not in the others?

b.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Why is there weather helm in one BCC and not in the others?

b.

Ok ok, guys, for cheese sakes lets drop the weather helm stuff. Now maybe if he were to put leeboards on his BCC, it might look saltier.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Why is there weather helm in one BCC and not in the others?

b.

Sail cut.

I tried every tick in the book to remove weatherhelm (mast rake, sail trim, move ballast, etc.) and none of that made more than a tiny difference. Then I got a new mainsail that was cut properly and it sailed like a different boat.

A sewing machine is by far the best tool for correcting weatherhelm.

Steve

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by scottmacc

I am nearing the end of building a Mark Smallder's Designed 32' Kahuna which if you squint from afar may resemble a BCC. At any rate, it's tiller steered with a transom hung rudder. another person building the same boat, has opted to go with wheel steering using the Edson system aforementioned on this thread. We are each hoping to launch later this summer so as yet can't give proven results on either system. However, can point you to his pictures/site if your interested....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77428955@N02/9488944677/


https://www.flickr.com/photos/77428955@N02/page2

Yep. Somewhat less volume aft, no?

Are you going to be ready this season? Would be nice to see some pictures from the maiden voyage ... !

BTW Now I think maybe one of those 'reversed' wheels Ericson 35CR style wheels could fit a BBC better?

b.

[gdecon]

Originally Posted by lost gypsy

Hello,
I am thinking to switch from tiller to Edson pedestal and wheel on my Bristol Channel Cutter. Is there anyone to give me advice or opinion?
Thanks,
Frank

Think you should consider Catalina models

[Davo1404]

Originally Posted by reed1v

For those folks who think they have too much weather helm here is a tip: First check the mast's foot. some have a half moon metal plate fitted to the bottom(Cheoy Lees for example). That allows you to rake the mast aft. Raking the mast aft even two degrees from vertical will remove some weather helm. You can fit a plate to the bottom if one is not already there.
This is mostly a problem with ketch and yawl configurations.


Sometimes you will see boats with a lot of rake which indicates a hull that really wants to round up into the wind. Farther aft you rake, the less weather helm. Rake it enough and it will have lee helm(not good).

Itod, captains use to rake their masts according to how much cargo they were stowing and where stowed. Look at old photos. In harbor most masts are vertical. At sea, they are raked, sometimes severely so. Deeper the hull, more it wants to head into the wind. Old timers would go off soundings and fuss with the rake for different loads so they would have a good idea how to adjust the masts in port for the loads they were to carry.

Definitely not correct. Moving the mast forward decreases weather helm. Steel Roberts 36 & 38 designs are notorious for weather helm. An engineer friend of mine who owns a Roberts 36, fixed his by moving the mast forwards by a foot. A major task but completely solved the problem. Also the Autopilot was very grateful.