Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

[Manateeman]

Lot of opinions from people who have never built a boat.
Not one.
If these two young people make it, fine. All I hope is that they don’t call in a mayday and put someone’s life at risk.
The rest of this post is boring...silly conjecture.
Happy trails to them.
Captain Mark and his actual boatbuilding manatees

[spoolin01]

Weren't at least two of the transverse grid members cracked?

[Q Xopa]

Actually I believe they said they went with 1700, because "we knew we were going to to be laying up many many many layers and didnt need or want the extra bulk that 1708 gives".

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Lot of opinions from people who have never built a boat.

Not one.

If these two young people make it, fine. All I hope is that they don’t call in a mayday and put someone’s life at risk.

The rest of this post is boring...silly conjecture.

Happy trails to them.

Captain Mark and his actual boatbuilding manatees

Given it’s a economic disaster , why bother

[RaymondR]

Good luck to them. Good to see a damaged boat repaired and back in the water rather than cut up and dumped.

[PaulBartomioli]

Originally Posted by scfoster

First off, it's Finite Element Analysis (FEA) not Finite Element Method (FEM). If you want to be snarky, know the difference.
Second, I stated I'm not there so cannot derive a specific solution. Nobody can unless you're on site.
That being said, a prior poster asked for opinions from those that have some expertise. I did not add that I also worked on the Isle of Wight doing towing tank analysis. So, marine hydrodynamics and loading are not foreign concepts.
From what I can see from the videos, they are NOT tabbing it in correctly. Look up lap joints and you'll be on the right track. Merely piling up layers doesn't mean proper attachment to the hull is achieved, with the appropriate path for stress/load transfer. Since they don't go into any sort of detail of their approach, all we see is layers of glass being applied. Perhaps there are appropriate layups being done, but I don't know and neither do you.
As for finding out soon enough if the repairs were sufficient, I doubt it. Not unless they plan on doing some storm chasing.
If you trust their repair more than you would a brand new Beneteau, then we operate in different realities. Are you seriously stating that a boat designed on a computer, built fresh in a factory with experienced builders, QA systems, materials engineers and fresh/virgin materials, is of lower quality than a damaged boat with repairs that have had no materials testing?
I hope and pray their repairs were sufficient and wish them many years of quiet enjoyment. Seriously.

I'm not certain they are "ready to set off" based on their last posted video, unless the video was recorded several months ago. The entire interior needs to be wired, plumbing installed, and then rebuilt.

[DeValency]

In reference to this quote from s foster: “If you trust their repair more than you would a brand new Beneteau, then we operate in different realities. Are you seriously stating that a boat designed on a computer, built fresh in a factory with experienced builders, QA systems, materials engineers and fresh/virgin materials, is of lower quality than a damaged boat with repairs that have had no materials testing?״
***

Yes, given the outcomes and findings of the Evans, following the original grounding damage and cosmetic first attempt to repair by the former/original owner provider, I can definitely say that the repair made will most probably create a stronger bottom and bottom to grid integration. What has been exposed out of the original built and disintegration tells that in spite of all the outstanding qualifications, experience and technology used by the builder, the result, at least on this particular boat (and probably the entire line) was below standards and would never pass Lloyd’s of London approval.

Building a stronger structure costs significantly more. And eventually it is a business decision on how far to go. Yes, in normal conditions and most groundings most boats will survive with an acceptable or no damage. But boats should also survive extreme conditions. As we could see, the boat did look like a total loss - far from it, until the deep exposure that in most cases wouldn’t be economically justified.

I still highly respect Beneteau group but what has been found here is unacceptable.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by scfoster

Agree with Manateeman. Have an aviation background with extensive experience in repairing damaged structures, including composites.
First off, I'm not physically there, which is required to assess the damage and develop the best way to tackle the project...

Yet you seem to have no issue with dogging them for their rebuild.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Given it’s a economic disaster , why bother

Said no boat owner ever...

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Lot of opinions from people who have never built a boat.
Not one.
If these two young people make it, fine. All I hope is that they don’t call in a mayday and put someone’s life at risk.
The rest of this post is boring...silly conjecture.
Happy trails to them.
Captain Mark and his actual boatbuilding manatees

Don’t worry, they won’t call you.

[skyhawk]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Said no boat owner ever...

ditto RV owners!

I was recently looking at the total number of nights we've slept in our RV. Considering the extremely shotty workmanship from the factory and all the hours of required repairs...and all the upgrades I've done over the years...we could have stayed at the Ritz every night!

...and for some reason I cannot fully understand, I still had fun..... I guess because it has been good times spent with my family...good memories made with the kids.

[jhmfred]

Originally Posted by theoldwizard1

So as the cold weather sets in, what do you do ? Watch boat rebuilding video on YouTube !

This is a "classic" YouTube DIY repair video. Expedition Evans. Young couple who know very little about sailing and even less about repairing structural damage to a boat. The boat is a 2008 Beneteau 49. The interior is beautiful ! Looks like it was not used much. It had been grounded, HARD, several years before . Someone attempted some "quick repairs". The last owner, sold the boat (I hope cheap), because he knew there were problems that were not properly address.

They have been dismantling the interior and grind all of the gel coat on the hull interior and the matrix for a couple of weeks now. They have found a lot of shoddy repairs, the biggest being that the matrix was never properly re-bonded to the hull, nor was there adequate tabbing. They even found cases of "dry" 'glass mat (insufficient resin).

So this past week the finally got the yard to put the boat in the travel lift sling and raise it up so that they could remove the keel. All of the keel bolts came loose (some were pretty rusty) but this is what happened when the lifted the hull off of the keel.

Attachment 225820

The cast iron keel was "bonded" to the fiberglass hull ! That hole is almost 2'x3'.

So my questions are, did Beneteau "bond" the keel to the hull at the factory, or was this done by someone else during the previous attempted repair ?

What adhesive is would be that strong to actually rip a large ho9le in the hull ?

appears the "in keel" FRP sump remained in the keel and attached to hull shell when the keel was separated. The FRP sump stayed with the keel as it was dropped, tearing the hull shell away where that sump was laminated to be integral with the hull shell. Most of the hole you saw (his leg sticking through it) is the sump opening.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by jhmfred

appears the "in keel" FRP sump remained in the keel and attached to hull shell when the keel was separated. The FRP sump stayed with the keel as it was dropped, tearing the hull shell away where that sump was laminated to be integral with the hull shell. Most of the hole you saw (his leg sticking through it) is the sump opening.

Correct. Many new boats, including Beneteau are delivered to the launching yard without the keel - these are trucked separately on a pallet.

When the keel is attached to the hull, the seam is sealed with I believe 4200 to enable future removal if necessary. What happened here was that a major part of the original damage was right at the bilge sump area above the keel. The original repairs may have used epoxy/5200 etc to (poorly) repair and seal from the inside - facing the keel top. When the hull was lifted the damaged area above the keel simply stayed fully bonded to the keel and opened that bottom section.

In the Evans case, this probably had to be done even if the keel would be removed cleanly - As that area was badly damaged and would require rebuilding at any case. Indeed a way more severe damage that also exposed poor original building - but at least the couple and thousands of followers get a quite fascinating project out of the disaster. And the Evans will end up with a stronger boat than the new - before the grounding.

[coopec43]

I have a deep distrust of long thin bolt on keels which cannot take a hard grounding.

Why do keel failures happen and what can we do to prevent it?

https://www.yachtingworld.com/news/k...ng-facts-60006

[scfoster]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Yet you seem to have no issue with dogging them for their rebuild.

Nope. Just answering questions, with the qualifier that I as well as you are not there to actually inspect the damage. Therefore given that nobody on this thread, as far as I know, has actually been to their boat, all of this is pure speculation.

Stating that one would not have taken on such a large project is not dogging anyone. My current boat is a project that 80% of this forum would not undertake either. Their boat is in that 2% category, as far as I can tell. Their timing worked out that they could put in 12-14 hour days for months on end, without taking away from an income source that had temporarily disappeared. That's a huge factor that probably 98% of this forum could not replicate.

They are back in the water for the winter, so clearly they have completed the repairs to their satisfaction. That is a major accomplishment for which they should be immensely proud, and deservedly so; I truly hope it works out for them.